Super-aliens might gather stars and galaxies

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If Dyson Swarms are the physical limit for an advanced civilization and the expansion of the universe is a real problem for those super-aliens then we could see them gathering stars and galaxies.

The presence of dark energy in our universe is causing space to expand at an accelerating rate. As a result, over the next approximately 100 billion years, all stars residing beyond the Local Group will fall beyond the cosmic horizon and become not only unobservable, but entirely inaccessible, thus limiting how much energy could one day be extracted from them.

If Dyson Swarms were worth making then super-aliens would want to direct waste heat and energy in specific directions. This would enable stars and even galaxies to be gathered. It would be mainly worthwhile for stars about the size of our sun. Larger stars would not last long enough and small stars would be tougher to move using their emitted solar power.

Gathering stars would maximize available energy over trillions of years by several thousand times.

However, this concept could be like assuming we could spot the storing of firewood on a planetary scale. There are better energy sources than firewood for a planet. There could be better energy options for a super-civilization.

Arxiv – Life Versus Dark Energy: How An Advanced Civilization Could Resist the Accelerating Expansion of the Universe

45 thoughts on “Super-aliens might gather stars and galaxies”

  1. In a novella called “Thousandth Night” by Alistair Reynolds, a plan to do exactly what is proposed here is central to the plot . . . and it was published in 2005. In the sequel book, “The House of Suns” a representative from a robot civilization stated that its race believed the Boötes Void wasn’t actually a void at all, but a place where countless galaxies had covered most of their stars with Dyson Spheres. (Sure wish Reynolds would do a sequel.) In reality, it is less than likely that there has been time since the Big Bang for an intelligent species to arise and do all of that (and for the light to reach us). Looking at the future, if the acceleration of the expansion of the universe is a real thing, it seems doubtful that the universe itself will last much more than another twenty-two billion years before The Big Rip. And possibly much less, subjectively, if it turns out that what we perceive as the acceleration is actually the rate of time itself slowing down, relative to the size of the universe, as the amplitude of the wave energy of The Big Bang is decreased by propagation of the expanding wave front of space-time. In that case, the balance point between amplitude and wavelength likely already occurred when the universe was approximately 7.8 billion years old and apparent acceleration of the expansion came to a brief stop.

  2. All this is pointless fantasy and speculation. How about we find concrete evidence of ANY extraterrestrial life at all before we worry about them moving stars?

  3. In a novella called Thousandth Night”” by Alistair Reynolds”” a plan to do exactly what is proposed here is central to the plot . . . and it was published in 2005. In the sequel book”” “”””The House of Suns”””” a representative from a robot civilization stated that its race believed the Boötes Void wasn’t actually a void at all”” but a place where countless galaxies had covered most of their stars with Dyson Spheres. (Sure wish Reynolds would do a sequel.)In reality it is less than likely that there has been time since the Big Bang for an intelligent species to arise and do all of that (and for the light to reach us).Looking at the future if the acceleration of the expansion of the universe is a real thing it seems doubtful that the universe itself will last much more than another twenty-two billion years before The Big Rip. And possibly much less subjectively if it turns out that what we perceive as the acceleration is actually the rate of time itself slowing down relative to the size of the universe as the amplitude of the wave energy of The Big Bang is decreased by propagation of the expanding wave front of space-time. In that case”” the balance point between amplitude and wavelength likely already occurred when the universe was approximately 7.8 billion years old and apparent acceleration of the expansion came to a brief stop.”””””””

  4. All this is pointless fantasy and speculation. How about we find concrete evidence of ANY extraterrestrial life at all before we worry about them moving stars?

  7. I’d say the functional, highly specified complex information systems that run life are best explained by an extraterrestrial intelligence(s). In fact, a recent examination of the Tree of Life, or common descent, theory vs computer-like modules of common design “software” shows the latter predicting actual observed genetics far, FAR better than the former. (Far better being between 10,000 and 515,000 Bayesian bits superior, when a difference of 6.6 is considered “definitive.”) That peer-reviewed analysis is just a first pass, as the authors admit, but it appears to be done carefully. If further research backs up and fleshes out their hypothesis, the impact could be on the order of the Copernican Revolution in biology. [i]The dependency graph hypothesis does not simply predict the same pattern as common descent, nor common descent with unspecified deviations from the general pattern. Instead, it predicts instances of module reuse across taxonomic boundaries. Examples include the molecular convergence found in echolocating mammals [26] or marine mammals [27, 28]. Others have argued that mammals in general show a similar level of convergence [29, 30]. Moreover, virtually all sequenced genomes contain genes which have been interpreted as having arrived by horizontal gene transfer due to not fitting the hierarchical pattern [8, 11, 12, 31]. If the dependency graph hypothesis is correct, we should expect to find numerous examples of modules that appear to have been reused across taxonomic boundaries. The dependency graph hypothesis draws on the idea of common design, by having reusable modules, as well as functional requirements, by restricting the reuse of modules via the dependency graph. The concept of a dependency graph draws not from an ad-hoc attempt to explain the data, but the actual process used to develop software. It is based on behaviors and practices that intelligent agents are known to use, not simply processes necessary to explain the data.[/i] Sta

  8. Sorry the citation didn’t work. Will try againhttp://bio-complexity.org/ojs/index.php/main/article/view/BIO-C.2018.3

  9. I’d say the functional highly specified complex information systems that run life are best explained by an extraterrestrial intelligence(s). In fact a recent examination of the Tree of Life or common descent theory vs computer-like modules of common design software”” shows the latter predicting actual observed genetics far”” FAR better than the former. (Far better being between 10000 and 515000 Bayesian bits superior”” when a difference of 6.6 is considered “”””definitive.””””)That peer-reviewed analysis is just a first pass”” as the authors admit but it appears to be done carefully. If further research backs up and fleshes out their hypothesis the impact could be on the order of the Copernican Revolution in biology. [i]The dependency graph hypothesis does not simply predict the same pattern as common descent nor common descent with unspecified deviations from the general pattern. Instead it predicts instances of module reuse across taxonomic boundaries.Examples include the molecular convergence found in echolocating mammals [26] or marine mammals [27 28]. Others have argued that mammals in general show a similar level of convergence [29 30].Moreover virtually all sequenced genomes contain genes which have been interpreted as having arrived by horizontal gene transfer due to not fitting the hierarchical pattern [81112 31]. If the dependency graph hypothesis is correct we should expect to find numerous examples of modules that appear to have been reused across taxonomic boundaries.The dependency graph hypothesis draws on the idea of common design by having reusable modules as well as functional requirements by restricting the reuse of modules via the dependency graph. The concept of a dependency graph draws not from an ad-hoc attempt to explain the data but the actual process used to develop software. It is based on behaviors and practices that intelligent agents are known to use”” not simply processes necessary to explain the data.[/i]Stay t”

  10. Agreed. Vuukle strips all links automatically, and treats long posts with math as spam. It seems to be designed for gossip sites, not serious for discussion. Brian, is there any way to disable these filters in your admin settings?

  11. Got the refs? Also, if everything’s going to go cold and dark anyway, then why bother? Unless you can find out how to make new matter and new energy, and dump conservation.

  12. How in the world can you have a discussion about research without being able to cite the source? This is the worst!

  13. Agreed. Vuukle strips all links automatically and treats long posts with math as spam. It seems to be designed for gossip sites not serious for discussion.Brian is there any way to disable these filters in your admin settings?

  14. Got the refs?Also if everything’s going to go cold and dark anyway then why bother?Unless you can find out how to make new matter and new energy and dump conservation.

  15. How in the world can you have a discussion about research without being able to cite the source?This is the worst!

  17. The future is not about building things bigger and more powerful but about building things smaller and more energy efficient.

  18. When I tried submitting a link I just put a space between the https: and the URL. It seemed to work. Of course you have to copy and paste it into your browser and then edit it but that’s better than nothing.

  19. The future is not about building things bigger and more powerful but about building things smaller and more energy efficient.

  20. Tatiana, I’ve been trying to post the link repeatedly, but Vuukle won’t allow it. Thomas suggested leaving a space between the https: and the URL, which I’ll try to do in this post. As for new matter and energy, perhaps that will prove impossible for us. Given the beginning of the universe, which includes matter, energy, space and time, apparently it is not impossible for others — or Other. And if the highly advanced others or Other intervened to enable life, including humanity, then apparently we are important for their/his/her purposes. So I’m optimistic for the very long term. 🙂 No luck with Thomas’ suggestion, Vuukle keep calling it spam. Go to bio-complexity org site and look for Winston Ewart article on dependency graphs.

  21. When I tried submitting a link I just put a space between the https: and the URL. It seemed to work. Of course, you have to copy and paste it into your browser and then edit it, but that’s better than nothing.

  22. Tatiana I’ve been trying to post the link repeatedly but Vuukle won’t allow it. Thomas suggested leaving a space between the https: and the URL which I’ll try to do in this post.As for new matter and energy perhaps that will prove impossible for us. Given the beginning of the universe which includes matter energy space and time apparently it is not impossible for others — or Other. And if the highly advanced others or Other intervened to enable life including humanity then apparently we are important for their/his/her purposes. So I’m optimistic for the very long term. :)No luck with Thomas’ suggestion Vuukle keep calling it spam. Go to bio-complexity org site and look for Winston Ewart article on dependency graphs.

  27. Doc, you can see reference to paper at my previous comment, which FINALLY was posted. Still considers anything remotely like a citation as spam, unfortunately. A shame, because the paper is causing a stir in scientific circles. Hard to argue with the math, clearly the dependency graph model is far superior to common descent at explaining observed genetics. The main critique appears to be that perhaps hybridization or lateral gene transfer could also explain just as well or better than the module model. After all, modern humans interbred with Neanderthals. But this only works at the genus/species level, not the higher taxa. Galapagos finches do indeed hybridize, for example. But why do zebra finches and zebra fish share 19 genes that no other animals have? Why do bats and porpoises uniquely share gene modules for echolocation? For a look at the paper’s Bayesian math, inference, critiques, and response to critiques, go to evolutionnews site. More than that I’m afraid will get me spam blocked. Again!

  28. Doc you can see reference to paper at my previous comment which FINALLY was posted. Still considers anything remotely like a citation as spam unfortunately.A shame because the paper is causing a stir in scientific circles. Hard to argue with the math clearly the dependency graph model is far superior to common descent at explaining observed genetics. The main critique appears to be that perhaps hybridization or lateral gene transfer could also explain just as well or better than the module model. After all modern humans interbred with Neanderthals.But this only works at the genus/species level not the higher taxa. Galapagos finches do indeed hybridize for example. But why do zebra finches and zebra fish share 19 genes that no other animals have? Why do bats and porpoises uniquely share gene modules for echolocation?For a look at the paper’s Bayesian math inference critiques and response to critiques go to evolutionnews site. More than that I’m afraid will get me spam blocked. Again!

  32. Doc, you can see reference to paper at my previous comment, which FINALLY was posted. Still considers anything remotely like a citation as spam, unfortunately.

    A shame, because the paper is causing a stir in scientific circles. Hard to argue with the math, clearly the dependency graph model is far superior to common descent at explaining observed genetics. The main critique appears to be that perhaps hybridization or lateral gene transfer could also explain just as well or better than the module model. After all, modern humans interbred with Neanderthals.

    But this only works at the genus/species level, not the higher taxa. Galapagos finches do indeed hybridize, for example. But why do zebra finches and zebra fish share 19 genes that no other animals have? Why do bats and porpoises uniquely share gene modules for echolocation?

    For a look at the paper’s Bayesian math, inference, critiques, and response to critiques, go to evolutionnews site. More than that I’m afraid will get me spam blocked. Again!

  35. Tatiana, I’ve been trying to post the link repeatedly, but Vuukle won’t allow it. Thomas suggested leaving a space between the https: and the URL, which I’ll try to do in this post.

    As for new matter and energy, perhaps that will prove impossible for us. Given the beginning of the universe, which includes matter, energy, space and time, apparently it is not impossible for others — or Other. And if the highly advanced others or Other intervened to enable life, including humanity, then apparently we are important for their/his/her purposes. So I’m optimistic for the very long term. 🙂

    No luck with Thomas’ suggestion, Vuukle keep calling it spam. Go to bio-complexity org site and look for Winston Ewart article on dependency graphs.

  36. When I tried submitting a link I just put a space between the https: and the URL. It seemed to work. Of course, you have to copy and paste it into your browser and then edit it, but that’s better than nothing.

  38. Agreed. Vuukle strips all links automatically, and treats long posts with math as spam. It seems to be designed for gossip sites, not serious for discussion.

    Brian, is there any way to disable these filters in your admin settings?

  39. Got the refs?

    Also, if everything’s going to go cold and dark anyway, then why bother?

    Unless you can find out how to make new matter and new energy, and dump conservation.

  43. I’d say the functional, highly specified complex information systems that run life are best explained by an extraterrestrial intelligence(s). In fact, a recent examination of the Tree of Life, or common descent, theory vs computer-like modules of common design “software” shows the latter predicting actual observed genetics far, FAR better than the former. (Far better being between 10,000 and 515,000 Bayesian bits superior, when a difference of 6.6 is considered “definitive.”)

    That peer-reviewed analysis is just a first pass, as the authors admit, but it appears to be done carefully. If further research backs up and fleshes out their hypothesis, the impact could be on the order of the Copernican Revolution in biology.

    [i]The dependency graph hypothesis does not simply predict the same pattern as common descent, nor common descent with unspecified deviations from the general pattern. Instead, it predicts instances of module reuse across taxonomic boundaries.

    Examples include the molecular convergence found in echolocating mammals [26] or marine mammals [27, 28]. Others have argued that mammals in general show a similar level of convergence [29, 30].

    Moreover, virtually all sequenced genomes contain genes which have been interpreted as having arrived by horizontal gene transfer due to not fitting the hierarchical pattern [8, 11, 12, 31]. If the dependency graph hypothesis is correct, we should expect to find numerous examples of modules that appear to have been reused across taxonomic boundaries.

    The dependency graph hypothesis draws on the idea of common design, by having reusable modules, as well as functional requirements, by restricting the reuse of modules via the dependency graph. The concept of a dependency graph draws not from an ad-hoc attempt to explain the data, but the actual process used to develop software. It is based on behaviors and practices that intelligent agents are known to use, not simply processes necessary to explain the data.[/i]

    Stay tuned!

    http://bio-complexity.org/ojs/index.php/main/article/view/BIO-C.2018.3

  44. In a novella called “Thousandth Night” by Alistair Reynolds, a plan to do exactly what is proposed here is central to the plot . . . and it was published in 2005.

    In the sequel book, “The House of Suns” a representative from a robot civilization stated that its race believed the Boötes Void wasn’t actually a void at all, but a place where countless galaxies had covered most of their stars with Dyson Spheres. (Sure wish Reynolds would do a sequel.)

    In reality, it is less than likely that there has been time since the Big Bang for an intelligent species to arise and do all of that (and for the light to reach us).

    Looking at the future, if the acceleration of the expansion of the universe is a real thing, it seems doubtful that the universe itself will last much more than another twenty-two billion years before The Big Rip.

    And possibly much less, subjectively, if it turns out that what we perceive as the acceleration is actually the rate of time itself slowing down, relative to the size of the universe, as the amplitude of the wave energy of The Big Bang is decreased by propagation of the expanding wave front of space-time. In that case, the balance point between amplitude and wavelength likely already occurred when the universe was approximately 7.8 billion years old and apparent acceleration of the expansion came to a brief stop.

  45. All this is pointless fantasy and speculation.

    How about we find concrete evidence of ANY extraterrestrial life at all before we worry about them moving stars?

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