California has approved legislation requiring 100% clean energy by 2045.
On Tuesday, the Assembly voted 43-32 in favor of the bill, which had been introduced by Sen. Kevin de León. Senate Bill 100 will now return to the state Senate, where it is expected to pass.
The bill will require that utilities providers generate 60% of their power from renewable sources by 2030. It was already required to be 50% renewable sources by 2030.
Californian’s pay an average of 15.23 cents per kilowatt of power while the U.S. average is 10.27 cents per kilowatt.
Toyota and Jacobs Engineering Group are amount thousands of companies that are leaving California.Toyota left Torrance and will move US headquarters to Dallas. There are some reports that over the last two decades thousands of businesses have left California.
More people have been leaving California for other states than have been moving to California. According to data from the American Community Survey, from 2007 to 2016, about 5 million people moved to California from other states, while about 6 million left California. On net, the state lost 1 million residents to domestic migration—about 2.5% of its total population.
In California, both wind and solar generation are about ten times less in the lowest months versus the top three months.
If California reaches the 80% mark for renewables there will be massive amounts of surplus generation during the summer months and would need 9.6 million megawatt-hours of energy storage. Achieving 100% would require 36.3 million.
California should reach on 50% of its electricity from clean sources by 2020 and could pass a bill to legally require 100% by 2045. In January, they voted to close a nuclear plant which is a carbon-free source that provides 24% of the state electricity.
The amount and cost of the storage will go over $350+ billion because of the wide variation in solar and wind power generation.
The two 1.1 GW AP1000 reactors are coming in over budget at about $20 billion for both. Twelve pairs of AP1000 reactors would cost $240 billion even with bad cost overruns and generate over 200 TWh that California needs in electricity.
Brian Wang is a Futurist Thought Leader and a popular Science blogger with 1 million readers per month. His blog Nextbigfuture.com is ranked #1 Science News Blog. It covers many disruptive technology and trends including Space, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, Medicine, Anti-aging Biotechnology, and Nanotechnology.
Known for identifying cutting edge technologies, he is currently a Co-Founder of a startup and fundraiser for high potential early-stage companies. He is the Head of Research for Allocations for deep technology investments and an Angel Investor at Space Angels.
A frequent speaker at corporations, he has been a TEDx speaker, a Singularity University speaker and guest at numerous interviews for radio and podcasts. He is open to public speaking and advising engagements.
So who is going to finance these reactors?” Obviously the same people who are going to finance untold GW of wind turbines, solar PV, and batteries. The point being that once we say “we are going to rebuild our power supply and grid” then the question is who can spend the money better. Also my guess is that power would be consumed by cars charging at night.
California is the 5th fastest growing economy in the US, it is far from faltering due to renewable costs. Renewables price have been falling steadily and storage has even steeper price drop curve especially once zinc air batteries will become widely adopted and sodium air batteries will follow with even lower price. HVDC lines can create vast distribution energy networks that mitigate most of the need for storage. This is even a cheaper solution than storage and is already being implemented in China on a large scale. Electric cars and other big energy users can be adjusted to get automatically charged when there electricity supply which can go a great way to balance electricity supply and demand. Once we reach a 60% renewable energy molten salt nuclear reactors will be available to start replacing fossil fuel power baseload, working in tandem with renewable energy to provide 100% clean and safe energy around 2050 at a reasonable price.
That might be what they do, since it is a 60% renewable 40% non-carbon bill. Brian made a mistake on what it is; he seems to think it is a 100% renewable energy bill.
SB 100 is not a 100% renewable electricity bill. It is a bill that mandates 60% renewable energy and 40% electricity from sources that do not emit carbon. Since Allam cycle is cheap natgas carbon capture….easily done.
In January, they voted to close a nuclear plant which is a carbon-free source that provides 24% of the state electricity.” When we closed SONGS and took its 2.1GW offline we negated all the solar and wind installations to that point. All we are doing is displacing Carbon free nuclear with more expensive carbon free PV/wind. And my electricity bill went up when SONGS closed.
In California, both wind and solar generation are about ten times less in the lowest months versus the top three months.” Hmm. Who could have foreseen this?
Ya know… If the cost of going from 50% renewables to 100% renewables is $300 billion then you could buy 30 AP1000 reactors, locate them in AZ and NV and provide all of CA’s power while being 100% carbon free.
We’ll just take all of Palo Verde’s nuclear power to make up for closing Diablo Canyon. Nuclear power is good if it is in Az. Maybe Az will be so kind as to build a fleet of air cooled MSR’s so that CA can keep the lights on.
California is the 5th fastest growing economy in the US it is far from faltering due to renewable costs. Renewables price have been falling steadily and storage has even steeper price drop curve especially once zinc air batteries will become widely adopted and sodium air batteries will follow with even lower price. HVDC lines can create vast distribution energy networks that mitigate most of the need for storage. This is even a cheaper solution than storage and is already being implemented in China on a large scale. Electric cars and other big energy users can be adjusted to get automatically charged when there electricity supply which can go a great way to balance electricity supply and demand. Once we reach a 60{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} renewable energy molten salt nuclear reactors will be available to start replacing fossil fuel power baseload working in tandem with renewable energy to provide 100{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} clean and safe energy around 2050 at a reasonable price.
That might be what they do since it is a 60{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} renewable 40{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} non-carbon bill. Brian made a mistake on what it is; he seems to think it is a 100{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} renewable energy bill.
SB 100 is not a 100{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} renewable electricity bill. It is a bill that mandates 60{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} renewable energy and 40{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} electricity from sources that do not emit carbon.Since Allam cycle is cheap natgas carbon capture….easily done.
In January” they voted to close a nuclear plant which is a carbon-free source that provides 24{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of the state electricity.””When we closed SONGS and took its 2.1GW offline we negated all the solar and wind installations to that point. All we are doing is displacing Carbon free nuclear with more expensive carbon free PV/wind.And my electricity bill went up when SONGS closed.”””
In California” both wind and solar generation are about ten times less in the lowest months versus the top three months.””Hmm. Who could have foreseen this?”””
Ya know…If the cost of going from 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} renewables to 100{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} renewables is $300 billion then you could buy 30 AP1000 reactors locate them in AZ and NV and provide all of CA’s power while being 100{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} carbon free.
We’ll just take all of Palo Verde’s nuclear power to make up for closing Diablo Canyon. Nuclear power is good if it is in Az.Maybe Az will be so kind as to build a fleet of air cooled MSR’s so that CA can keep the lights on.
Ummm…don’t people charge their cars at night?
Keep smoking that crâck pipe! And if you vote in CA, plz stop.
You could mandate utility compliance, if you were stupid. If you were smart, you’d implement rates that reflect the marginal cost of generation, for minute long increments of time, and pay generators that rate, minus the estimated cost of transmission to a user. Of course, anyone can sell, and anyone can buy. If solar, and storage get as cheap as their enthusiasts claim they will, under this rate structure, they will replace legacy generation, without any coercion, or artificially high prices whatsoever, but then, where’s the fun in that, say the socialists.
I really love this commenting system. So easy to log on from any computer. No bugs, just clean and simple interface.
The future of Tesla to become one of the biggest companies in the world has been assured with this bill.
Demand also drops soon after.
Smaller compact reactors are easier to manage in an earthquake. CA coast doesn’t have a tsunami risk. Fun fact: the tsunami wall at SONGS is higher than the one at Fukushima.
Since we are talking 2045 you could just build air cooled load following MSRs, skip the solar PV and put the batteries in cars. We already have tens of GWhr “batteries” that cost one tenth of lithium ion. Its called pumped hydro and it hasn’t been mass adopted.
Why not a graph comparing demand against renewable generation.” Do electric car commuters hibernate in the winter time? Sun effectively goes down at 5pm in SoCal.
As much as I rag on my state I can see CA accidentally opening the door to nuclear expansion as an unintended consequence of this bill. Of course the nukes will need to be out of state. CA won’t build new nuclear plants.
Those transmission line insulators make for an easy off switch. Why not investigate electro-kinectic storage systems? Energy storage could be possible in the form of combining active electromagnetic levitation and motion control upon a ferromagnetic conveyor loop, in combination with a linear motor/generator transducer system acting upon changing the loop momentum. Look under launchloop dot com fwdslash PowerLoop
You do realize that no one will buy this power except on the days where there is a shortage of renewable power. So who is going to finance these reactors?
Why not a graph comparing demand against renewable generation.
A few minor points. Top renewable generation occurs almost at the same time as top demand so storage requirements aren’t as high as calculated. California is a seismic active zone which means it is not a good place to put nuclear reactors. Seismic Calculations for structures are done using a likely earthquake. Unlikely earthquakes happen just ask Japan. Today costs are not tomorrows costs. As for people leaving California please hurry up and go because I am looking for a nice apartment.
Ummm…don’t people charge their cars at night?
Keep smoking that crâck pipe!And if you vote in CA plz stop.”
You could mandate utility compliance if you were stupid. If you were smart you’d implement rates that reflect the marginal cost of generation for minute long increments of time and pay generators that rate minus the estimated cost of transmission to a user. Of course anyone can sell and anyone can buy.If solar and storage get as cheap as their enthusiasts claim they will under this rate structure they will replace legacy generation without any coercion or artificially high prices whatsoever but then where’s the fun in that say the socialists.
I really love this commenting system. So easy to log on from any computer. No bugs just clean and simple interface.
The future of Tesla to become one of the biggest companies in the world has been assured with this bill.
Demand also drops soon after.
Smaller compact reactors are easier to manage in an earthquake.CA coast doesn’t have a tsunami risk.Fun fact: the tsunami wall at SONGS is higher than the one at Fukushima.
Since we are talking 2045 you could just build air cooled load following MSRs skip the solar PV and put the batteries in cars.We already have tens of GWhr batteries”” that cost one tenth of lithium ion. Its called pumped hydro and it hasn’t been mass adopted.”””
Why not a graph comparing demand against renewable generation.””Do electric car commuters hibernate in the winter time? Sun effectively goes down at 5pm in SoCal.”””
As much as I rag on my state I can see CA accidentally opening the door to nuclear expansion as an unintended consequence of this bill. Of course the nukes will need to be out of state. CA won’t build new nuclear plants.
Those transmission line insulators make for an easy off switch. Why not investigate electro-kinectic storage systems? Energy storage could be possible in the form of combining active electromagnetic levitation and motion control upon a ferromagnetic conveyor loop in combination with a linear motor/generator transducer system acting upon changing the loop momentum.Look under launchloop dot com fwdslash PowerLoop
So who is going to finance these reactors?””Obviously the same people who are going to finance untold GW of wind turbines”” solar PV”” and batteries.The point being that once we say “”””we are going to rebuild our power supply and grid”””” then the question is who can spend the money better.Also my guess is that power would be consumed by cars charging at night.”””
You do realize that no one will buy this power except on the days where there is a shortage of renewable power. So who is going to finance these reactors?
Why not a graph comparing demand against renewable generation.
A few minor points. Top renewable generation occurs almost at the same time as top demand so storage requirements aren’t as high as calculated. California is a seismic active zone which means it is not a good place to put nuclear reactors. Seismic Calculations for structures are done using a likely earthquake. Unlikely earthquakes happen just ask Japan. Today costs are not tomorrows costs. As for people leaving California please hurry up and go because I am looking for a nice apartment.
That’s the problem! Unless CA residents are willing to live with brown-outs and black-outs, every non-dispatchable renewable watt has to be backed up by a dispatchable one – fossil or nuclear fuel. That’s expensive indeed. CA residents will pay through taxes and higher costs.
Mexico would be the closest low regulation place wouldn’t it?
Pumped hydro, like normal hydro, is very location dependent. You need suitable geography to build it.
The Cars are just part of the demand. They are not all of the demand. Highest loads will be during the hottest part of the summer on weekdays in the morning and in the evening. Solar will match most of that except in the early morning and late evening. I would back wind and solar with hydro and pump storage because they are cheaper. Batteries I would use for spot loads and short periods. The other thing I would is use is demand shaping. The utilities would charge customer a lower rate for installing demand control devices so the utility can turn off or turn down air conditioners, fridges, and elevators. Utilities can also reduce voltage to lower demand.
EV are currently a small fraction of the demand. In the future it will be more. But I doubt it will ever be as high as businesses. I think the utilities will implement some Time of Day charge to get people to charge their cars after midnight when demand will be at the lowest.
They call that fraud ‘electron laundering’.
Couldn’t disagree more. Lost old comments. Lost old points. No citations or math allowed. Vuke is great for social media not for serious technical or scientific discussion.
Look on the bright side: At least when the last middle-class Californian leaves the state due to high electricity rates they will have already turned off the lights to save money.
That’s the problem! Unless CA residents are willing to live with brown-outs and black-outs every non-dispatchable renewable watt has to be backed up by a dispatchable one – fossil or nuclear fuel. That’s expensive indeed.CA residents will pay through taxes and higher costs.
Mexico would be the closest low regulation place wouldn’t it?
Pumped hydro like normal hydro is very location dependent. You need suitable geography to build it.
The Cars are just part of the demand. They are not all of the demand. Highest loads will be during the hottest part of the summer on weekdays in the morning and in the evening. Solar will match most of that except in the early morning and late evening. I would back wind and solar with hydro and pump storage because they are cheaper. Batteries I would use for spot loads and short periods. The other thing I would is use is demand shaping. The utilities would charge customer a lower rate for installing demand control devices so the utility can turn off or turn down air conditioners fridges and elevators. Utilities can also reduce voltage to lower demand.
EV are currently a small fraction of the demand. In the future it will be more. But I doubt it will ever be as high as businesses. I think the utilities will implement some Time of Day charge to get people to charge their cars after midnight when demand will be at the lowest.
They call that fraud ‘electron laundering’.
Read my comment above I have done some research about the seasonality of solar and there is written that solar goes down somehow during winter times, but not as much as 90% . I am very suspicious of that graph
Actually the NuScale Nuclear SMR is super seismic proof.
I have some issues buying this.. Looking at the source of this info, it comes from an association called catf, not from a governmental association, so they can write what they want I have a hard time believing sun power goes down 90% or so in December opposite to July.
A agree! I would like to add that the energy storage cost is also decreasing by the day and new ways for storate are discovered daily. Take for example the technology of filling a silo with just sand and rocks Not the highest efficiency but very low cost. And assuming solar prices can go down again in the future, even low efficiency but dirty cheap storage can become a viable solution Luca Ma ZZa
For some reasons, most of the brightest minds of the country live in California You (probably) do not. Have you ever asked yourself why?
Couldn’t disagree more. Lost old comments. Lost old points. No citations or math allowed. Vuke is great for social media, not for serious technical or scientific discussion.
Look on the bright side: At least when the last middle-class Californian leaves the state due to high electricity rates, they will have already turned off the lights to save money.
Read my comment above I have done some research about the seasonality of solar and there is written that solar goes down somehow during winter times but not as much as 90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} . I am very suspicious of that graph
Actually the NuScale Nuclear SMR is super seismic proof.
I have some issues buying this.. Looking at the source of this info it comes from an association called catf not from a governmental association so they can write what they want I have a hard time believing sun power goes down 90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} or so in December opposite to July.
A agree! I would like to add that the energy storage cost is also decreasing by the day and new ways for storateare discovered daily. Take for example the technology of filling a silo with just sand and rocks Not the highest efficiency but very low cost. And assuming solar prices can go down again in the future even low efficiency but dirty cheap storage can become a viable solutionLuca Ma ZZa
For some reasons most of the brightest minds of the country live in CaliforniaYou (probably) do not. Have you ever asked yourself why?
Better lose old comments and points than the ones you just printed because the old system was hacked by Russian hackers.
It goes down 100% from noon to sundown, and 75 to 90% under cloud. Sacramento, in the middle of the state and a bit away from the coastal fogs, averages 440 hours sunshine in July and 141 in December, but to get the full use of that you’d need to have your panels move to follow the sun, not just stick them on a roof. The new California solar mandate only compels people to put PV up there, so it won’t be swivelling. It will put a huge strain on the grid, as so much must-take generation all blinks out right during evening peak load.
Solar in California is not . You can place solar panels anywhere you like
Better lose old comments and points than the ones you just printed because the old system was hacked by Russian hackers.
It goes down 100{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} from noon to sundown and 75 to 90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} under cloud. Sacramento in the middle of the state and a bit away from the coastal fogs averages 440 hours sunshine in July and 141 in December but to get the full use of that you’d need to have your panels move to follow the sun not just stick them on a roof. The new California solar mandate only compels people to put PV up there so it won’t be swivelling. It will put a huge strain on the grid as so much must-take generation all blinks out right during evening peak load.
Solar in California is not . You can place solar panels anywhere you like
The US average electricity price is 12.8c per kWh. South Carolinians are currently paying 12.7cents for our over-budget, abandoned V.C. Summer expansion (two new AP-1000 reactors). Georgians are paying about 11c for two that will be completed, albeit for a ridiculous 27 billion dollars. Of course, many of those costs can be cut out through better management practices of supply chain, etc. and construction experience.
The US average electricity price is 12.8c per kWh. South Carolinians are currently paying 12.7cents for our over-budget abandoned V.C. Summer expansion (two new AP-1000 reactors). Georgians are paying about 11c for two that will be completed albeit for a ridiculous 27 billion dollars. Of course many of those costs can be cut out through better management practices of supply chain etc. and construction experience.
The US average electricity price is 12.8c per kWh. South Carolinians are currently paying 12.7cents for our over-budget, abandoned V.C. Summer expansion (two new AP-1000 reactors). Georgians are paying about 11c for two that will be completed, albeit for a ridiculous 27 billion dollars. Of course, many of those costs can be cut out through better management practices of supply chain, etc. and construction experience.
Hard to get a sense of the quantity or calculate it to common kWh though.
Hard to get a sense of the quantity or calculate it to common kWh though.
GW-years per year. Basically equivalent to N*AP where ‘N’ is quantity of reactors and ‘AP’ is unity in the case of AP1000 including 10% offline time (90% cap fac).
GW-years per year. Basically equivalent to N*AP where ‘N’ is quantity of reactors and ‘AP’ is unity in the case of AP1000 including 10{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} offline time (90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} cap fac).
GW-years is my preference. CA consumption should be like 50-100 GW-years I guess.
GW-years is my preference. CA consumption should be like 50-100 GW-years I guess.
Hard to get a sense of the quantity or calculate it to common kWh though.
GW-years per year. Basically equivalent to N*AP where ‘N’ is quantity of reactors and ‘AP’ is unity in the case of AP1000 including 10% offline time (90% cap fac).
GW-years is my preference. CA consumption should be like 50-100 GW-years I guess.
This comment system is garbage. No proper links to posts, no formatting, no links, no quoting. It’s useless.
This comment system is garbage. No proper links to posts no formatting no links no quoting. It’s useless.
9.6 million megawatt-hours ” Why oh why? If you want something that’s understandable to the average idiot write 9.6 billion kWh. If not then 9.6 TWh. (I’m surprised we don’t have a “model 3 battery” unit of measurement for energy, joining football field and strand of human hair)
9.6 million megawatt-hours “”Why oh why? If you want something that’s understandable to the average idiot write 9.6 billion kWh.If not then 9.6 TWh.(I’m surprised we don’t have a “”””model 3 battery”””” unit of measurement for energy”””” joining football field and strand of human hair)”””
Two are the options 1) the 144 billionaires are stvpid and you are the bright one 2) the other way around which one do you think it is?
Two are the options 1) the 144 billionaires are stvpid and you are the bright one 2) the other way around which one do you think it is?
This comment system is garbage. No proper links to posts, no formatting, no links, no quoting. It’s useless.
Los Angeles is researching a USD 3 billion plan to make Hoover dam into pumped storage (2048MW). Call it $2 per watt with cost overruns.
Los Angeles is researching a USD 3 billion plan to make Hoover dam into pumped storage (2048MW). Call it $2 per watt with cost overruns.
“9.6 million megawatt-hours ”
Why oh why? If you want something that’s understandable to the average idiot write 9.6 billion kWh.
If not then 9.6 TWh.
(I’m surprised we don’t have a “model 3 battery” unit of measurement for energy, joining football field and strand of human hair)
You’re right – I was surprised – 144 of them. And way ahead of #2 (New York). And they all lean left – which is sorta odd, because it’s capitalism that got them where they are.
You’re right – I was surprised – 144 of them. And way ahead of #2 (New York). And they all lean left – which is sorta odd because it’s capitalism that got them where they are.
Two are the options
1) the 144 billionaires are stvpid and you are the bright one
2) the other way around
which one do you think it is?
when the sun is down????
when the sun is down????
Los Angeles is researching a USD 3 billion plan to make Hoover dam into pumped storage (2048MW). Call it $2 per watt with cost overruns.
Utility scale PV farms with two-axis tracking will get much higher power per square meter of panel than fixed rooftop, but they will also have a bigger difference between summer and winter, and a more sudden power cutoff at sundown. Both effects make it harder to back them up with reliable power, whether storage or fossil fuels.
Utility scale PV farms with two-axis tracking will get much higher power per square meter of panel than fixed rooftop but they will also have a bigger difference between summer and winter and a more sudden power cutoff at sundown. Both effects make it harder to back them up with reliable power whether storage or fossil fuels.
You’re right – I was surprised – 144 of them. And way ahead of #2 (New York). And they all lean left – which is sorta odd, because it’s capitalism that got them where they are.
If saving planet earth requires to pay a little bit more energy why not They can afford it
If saving planet earth requires to pay a little bit more energy why notThey can afford it
I do not see sunshine hours going down from 440 to 141, a quick reserach done in the net proves other wise But even f true, this would not be a 90% decrease as the graph above shows so..
I do not see sunshine hours going down from 440 to 141 a quick reserach done in the net proves other wise But even f true this would not be a 90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} decrease as the graph above shows so..
What about American trolls what about WTA?
What about American trolls what about WTA?
Quite a few billionaires, not just a few. The average net worth of Californians is among the highest if not the highest of the US And the CA government gets elected by the Californian people who make a lotof money, probably more than you
Quite a few billionaires not just a few. The average net worth of Californians is among the highest if not the highest of the US And the CA government gets elected by the Californian people who make a lotof money probably more than you
I don’t know about “brightest minds” – unless you count the handful of billionaires who run the companies. They’re bright enough to get tax breaks and subsidies from the government, and they get to live high on the hog, letting the rest of us struggle to pay the taxes that support them. One thing’s for sure: NONE of the brightest minds work for the CA government.
I don’t know about brightest minds”” – unless you count the handful of billionaires who run the companies. They’re bright enough to get tax breaks and subsidies from the government”” and they get to live high on the hog”” letting the rest of us struggle to pay the taxes that support them.One thing’s for sure: NONE of the brightest minds work for the CA government.”””
By 2040, electric power will be 100% “clean and renewable”. There just won’t be nearly as much of it. But by 2040 all those wise legislators will be long gone.
By 2040 electric power will be 100{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} clean and renewable””. There just won’t be nearly as much of it. But by 2040 all those wise legislators will be long gone.”””
when the sun is down????
Utility scale PV farms with two-axis tracking will get much higher power per square meter of panel than fixed rooftop, but they will also have a bigger difference between summer and winter, and a more sudden power cutoff at sundown. Both effects make it harder to back them up with reliable power, whether storage or fossil fuels.
If saving planet earth requires to pay a little bit more energy why not
They can afford it
I do not see sunshine hours going down from 440 to 141, a quick reserach done in the net proves other wise
But even f true, this would not be a 90% decrease as the graph above shows
so..
What about American trolls
what about WTA?
Quite a few billionaires, not just a few.
The average net worth of Californians is among the highest if not the highest of the US
And the CA government gets elected by the Californian people
who make a lotof money, probably more than you
I don’t know about “brightest minds” – unless you count the handful of billionaires who run the companies. They’re bright enough to get tax breaks and subsidies from the government, and they get to live high on the hog, letting the rest of us struggle to pay the taxes that support them.
One thing’s for sure: NONE of the brightest minds work for the CA government.
By 2040, electric power will be 100% “clean and renewable”. There just won’t be nearly as much of it. But by 2040 all those wise legislators will be long gone.
Better lose old comments and points than the ones you just printed because the old system was hacked by Russian hackers.
It goes down 100% from noon to sundown, and 75 to 90% under cloud. Sacramento, in the middle of the state and a bit away from the coastal fogs, averages 440 hours sunshine in July and 141 in December, but to get the full use of that you’d need to have your panels move to follow the sun, not just stick them on a roof. The new California solar mandate only compels people to put PV up there, so it won’t be swivelling. It will put a huge strain on the grid, as so much must-take generation all blinks out right during evening peak load.
Solar in California is not .
You can place solar panels anywhere you like
Read my comment above
I have done some research about the seasonality of solar and there is written that solar goes down somehow during winter times, but not as much as 90% .
I am very suspicious of that graph
Actually the NuScale Nuclear SMR is super seismic proof.
I have some issues buying this..
Looking at the source of this info, it comes from an association called catf, not from a governmental association, so they can write what they want
I have a hard time believing sun power goes down 90% or so in December opposite to July.
A agree!
I would like to add that the energy storage cost is also decreasing by the day and new ways for storate
are discovered daily. Take for example the technology of filling a silo with just sand and rocks
Not the highest efficiency but very low cost.
And assuming solar prices can go down again in the future, even low efficiency but dirty cheap storage can become a viable solution
Luca Ma ZZa
For some reasons, most of the brightest minds of the country live in California
You (probably) do not. Have you ever asked yourself why?
Couldn’t disagree more. Lost old comments. Lost old points. No citations or math allowed.
Vuke is great for social media, not for serious technical or scientific discussion.
Look on the bright side: At least when the last middle-class Californian leaves the state due to high electricity rates, they will have already turned off the lights to save money.
That’s the problem! Unless CA residents are willing to live with brown-outs and black-outs, every non-dispatchable renewable watt has to be backed up by a dispatchable one – fossil or nuclear fuel. That’s expensive indeed.
CA residents will pay through taxes and higher costs.
Mexico would be the closest low regulation place wouldn’t it?
Pumped hydro, like normal hydro, is very location dependent. You need suitable geography to build it.
The Cars are just part of the demand. They are not all of the demand. Highest loads will be during the hottest part of the summer on weekdays in the morning and in the evening. Solar will match most of that except in the early morning and late evening.
I would back wind and solar with hydro and pump storage because they are cheaper. Batteries I would use for spot loads and short periods. The other thing I would is use is demand shaping. The utilities would charge customer a lower rate for installing demand control devices so the utility can turn off or turn down air conditioners, fridges, and elevators. Utilities can also reduce voltage to lower demand.
EV are currently a small fraction of the demand. In the future it will be more. But I doubt it will ever be as high as businesses. I think the utilities will implement some Time of Day charge to get people to charge their cars after midnight when demand will be at the lowest.
They call that fraud ‘electron laundering’.
Ummm…don’t people charge their cars at night?
Keep smoking that crâck pipe!
And if you vote in CA, plz stop.
You could mandate utility compliance, if you were stupid. If you were smart, you’d implement rates that reflect the marginal cost of generation, for minute long increments of time, and pay generators that rate, minus the estimated cost of transmission to a user. Of course, anyone can sell, and anyone can buy.
If solar, and storage get as cheap as their enthusiasts claim they will, under this rate structure, they will replace legacy generation, without any coercion, or artificially high prices whatsoever, but then, where’s the fun in that, say the socialists.
I really love this commenting system. So easy to log on from any computer. No bugs, just clean and simple interface.
The future of Tesla to become one of the biggest companies in the world has been assured with this bill.
Demand also drops soon after.
Smaller compact reactors are easier to manage in an earthquake.
CA coast doesn’t have a tsunami risk.
Fun fact: the tsunami wall at SONGS is higher than the one at Fukushima.
Since we are talking 2045 you could just build air cooled load following MSRs, skip the solar PV and put the batteries in cars.
We already have tens of GWhr “batteries” that cost one tenth of lithium ion. Its called pumped hydro and it hasn’t been mass adopted.
“Why not a graph comparing demand against renewable generation.”
Do electric car commuters hibernate in the winter time? Sun effectively goes down at 5pm in SoCal.
As much as I rag on my state I can see CA accidentally opening the door to nuclear expansion as an unintended consequence of this bill. Of course the nukes will need to be out of state. CA won’t build new nuclear plants.
Those transmission line insulators make for an easy off switch.
Why not investigate electro-kinectic storage systems?
Energy storage could be possible in the form of combining active electromagnetic levitation and motion control upon a ferromagnetic conveyor loop, in combination with a linear motor/generator transducer system acting upon changing the loop momentum.
Look under launchloop dot com fwdslash PowerLoop
“So who is going to finance these reactors?”
Obviously the same people who are going to finance untold GW of wind turbines, solar PV, and batteries.
The point being that once we say “we are going to rebuild our power supply and grid” then the question is who can spend the money better.
Also my guess is that power would be consumed by cars charging at night.
You do realize that no one will buy this power except on the days where there is a shortage of renewable power. So who is going to finance these reactors?
Why not a graph comparing demand against renewable generation.
A few minor points. Top renewable generation occurs almost at the same time as top demand so storage requirements aren’t as high as calculated. California is a seismic active zone which means it is not a good place to put nuclear reactors. Seismic Calculations for structures are done using a likely earthquake. Unlikely earthquakes happen just ask Japan. Today costs are not tomorrows costs. As for people leaving California please hurry up and go because I am looking for a nice apartment.
California is the 5th fastest growing economy in the US, it is far from faltering due to renewable costs. Renewables price have been falling steadily and storage has even steeper price drop curve especially once zinc air batteries will become widely adopted and sodium air batteries will follow with even lower price. HVDC lines can create vast distribution energy networks that mitigate most of the need for storage. This is even a cheaper solution than storage and is already being implemented in China on a large scale. Electric cars and other big energy users can be adjusted to get automatically charged when there electricity supply which can go a great way to balance electricity supply and demand. Once we reach a 60% renewable energy molten salt nuclear reactors will be available to start replacing fossil fuel power baseload, working in tandem with renewable energy to provide 100% clean and safe energy around 2050 at a reasonable price.
That might be what they do, since it is a 60% renewable 40% non-carbon bill. Brian made a mistake on what it is; he seems to think it is a 100% renewable energy bill.
SB 100 is not a 100% renewable electricity bill. It is a bill that mandates 60% renewable energy and 40% electricity from sources that do not emit carbon.
Since Allam cycle is cheap natgas carbon capture….easily done.
“In January, they voted to close a nuclear plant which is a carbon-free source that provides 24% of the state electricity.”
When we closed SONGS and took its 2.1GW offline we negated all the solar and wind installations to that point. All we are doing is displacing Carbon free nuclear with more expensive carbon free PV/wind.
And my electricity bill went up when SONGS closed.
“In California, both wind and solar generation are about ten times less in the lowest months versus the top three months.”
Hmm. Who could have foreseen this?
Ya know…
If the cost of going from 50% renewables to 100% renewables is $300 billion then you could buy 30 AP1000 reactors, locate them in AZ and NV and provide all of CA’s power while being 100% carbon free.
We’ll just take all of Palo Verde’s nuclear power to make up for closing Diablo Canyon. Nuclear power is good if it is in Az.
Maybe Az will be so kind as to build a fleet of air cooled MSR’s so that CA can keep the lights on.