Tesla heading to 8000 model 3’s per week and production of $35,000 Model 3

Eric Markowitz and Dan Crowley of Worm Capital had a visit to the Tesla Gigafactory.

They believe that Tesla will be able to sustain—weekly production rates of 6,000 Model 3 battery units per week, and with new Grohmann Engineering machines will be able to scale to about 8,000 / week with minimal additional capital investment.

Grohmann Engineering will help module production become three times faster, and three times cheaper according to Martin Viecha, head of Tesla’s investor relations. Their new system will be sent to the Gigafactory by the end of Q3 or beginning of Q4. The Grohmann machine will be in Zones 1, 2, 3, and Tesla will be receiving three machines. The process was designed to alleviate the previous bottleneck in module production which delayed Model 3 production significantly. The machine is already built, and points to the advantage Tesla will have in building future Gigafactories.

Production rates at Tesla’s Fremont facility also appear on track for Tesla to achieve high Model 3 overall production output. Similar to our experience at the Gigafactory, Fremont appears to be on track as well. George Galliers, an analyst at Evercore ISI who visited the facility in August, concluded that he “did not see anything to suggest that Model 3 cannot reach 6k units per week and 7k to 8k with very little incremental capital expenditure.

● As of mid-2018, the Gigafactory is now the highest-volume battery plant in the world, according to Tesla. It currently produces batteries at about 200 million per quarter, closing in on a one-billion per year production rate. Tesla now produces more battery capacity than all other car manufacturers combined, including China, with a run rate of approximately 20 gigawatt-hours.

● Tesla will likely achieve a battery cell cost of $100 per kWh by the end of the year, so long as commodity prices remain stable.

Production of $35,000 Model 3 within eight months and Tesla Semi trucks by 2020

● Tesla will likely start producing the shorter-range Model 3 in the next eight months. Right now, they are focused on selling higher-margin cars where demand continues to exceed what is being produced.

According to Tesla, by next year they will start exporting Model 3s to other countries. They will also begin to earnestly produce Semis by 2020.

343 thoughts on “Tesla heading to 8000 model 3’s per week and production of $35,000 Model 3”

  1. Canadians have been getting them already, and it’s like a whole ‘nother country. ” That doesn’t prove that they meet their production targets. “WarrenTheApe is already sure it’s all imaginary and not happening.” Nope. I have fully stated that they will produce…crap. Like they have last year. Some months they had 90% defective units right off the production floor line.

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  2. Canadians have been getting them already” and it’s like a whole ‘nother country. “”That doesn’t prove that they meet their production targets. “”””WarrenTheApe is already sure it’s all imaginary and not happening.””””Nope. I have fully stated that they will produce…crap. Like they have last year. Some months they had 90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} defective units right off the production floor line.”””

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  3. What ‘few’ problems? These are endemic. The vast majority of Tesla cars that roll off the assembly line in Fremont each day have flaws that need to be fixed in post-production, Reuters reports, citing nine unnamed sources. Some months, more than 90 percent of the cars the company makes need to be fixed, according to internal quality control reports that Reuters saw but was unable to independently verify. Post-production fixes are expensive and can lead to production bottlenecks. Major automakers like Toyota Motor Corp. routinely see production defects on less than 10 percent of their cars. 90% defective right when it comes off the production line! hbit.ly/2jBDNIl Who’s lying now, Matteo?

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  4. What ‘few’ problems? These are endemic.The vast majority of Tesla cars that roll off the assembly line in Fremont each day have flaws that need to be fixed in post-production Reuters reports citing nine unnamed sources.Some months more than 90 percent of the cars the company makes need to be fixed according to internal quality control reports that Reuters saw but was unable to independently verify.Post-production fixes are expensive and can lead to production bottlenecks. Major automakers like Toyota Motor Corp. routinely see production defects on less than 10 percent of their cars.90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} defective right when it comes off the production line!hbit.ly/2jBDNIlWho’s lying now Matteo?

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  5. So what Warren? Why are you pretending the few problems that leave the factory are representative? Oh yeah, you’re just a lying troll.

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  6. So what Warren? Why are you pretending the few problems that leave the factory are representative?Oh yeah you’re just a lying troll.

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  7. They can make all the crap that they want: It will still be crap. Bumpers that fall off because rain water collects inside and they get too heavy? Tesla crap Quality problems that have to be fixed even before it leaves the manufacturing parking lot? Through the roof. Then there is the crap that makes it to the customer: bit.ly/2pfnLGT

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  8. They can make all the crap that they want: It will still be crap.Bumpers that fall off because rain water collects inside and they get too heavy? Tesla crapQuality problems that have to be fixed even before it leaves the manufacturing parking lot? Through the roof.Then there is the crap that makes it to the customer:bit.ly/2pfnLGT

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  9. Battery EVs are coming along, but their Achilles heel remains. The biggest obstacle to widely accepted battery electric cars, are their batteries. While energy density has improved greatly, and price per kWh is getting there, thermal dissipation during charging increases the cost of cell production, complicates battery pack design, and limits rate of charging. Because of the difficulty of keeping them cool, the cells in the M-3 are not much larger than those in my battery powered drill. Imagine how much cheaper it would be to able to use cells 10 times larger, not just manufacturing the cells, but integrating them into the pack. The M3 battery pack has conformal tubes of flowing water in contact with each, and every cell, and of course a pump, and heat exchanger. Imagine the reduction of complexity, cost, and weight if no cooling were required, or if it could be done with air.

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  10. Battery EVs are coming along but their Achilles heel remains. The biggest obstacle to widely accepted battery electric cars are their batteries. While energy density has improved greatly and price per kWh is getting there thermal dissipation during charging increases the cost of cell production complicates battery pack design and limits rate of charging.Because of the difficulty of keeping them cool the cells in the M-3 are not much larger than those in my battery powered drill. Imagine how much cheaper it would be to able to use cells 10 times larger not just manufacturing the cells but integrating them into the pack. The M3 battery pack has conformal tubes of flowing water in contact with each and every cell and of course a pump and heat exchanger. Imagine the reduction of complexity cost and weight if no cooling were required or if it could be done with air.

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  11. A) Canadians have been getting them already, and it’s like a whole ‘nother country. B) WarrenTheApe is already sure it’s all imaginary and not happening.

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  12. A) Canadians have been getting them already and it’s like a whole ‘nother country.B) WarrenTheApe is already sure it’s all imaginary and not happening.

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  13. Sorry, but your standing as a Total Musk Worshipping Kool-Aid Drinker has totally destroyed whatever credibility you had to dispute anything.

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  14. Sorry but your standing as a Total Musk Worshipping Kool-Aid Drinker has totally destroyed whatever credibility you had to dispute anything.

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  15. No they are not endemic. 90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} defective right when it comes off the production line! “” “””

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  16. Tesla now produces more battery capacity than all other car manufacturers combined, including China, with a run rate of approximately 20 gigawatt-hours.” Hello overhyped Chinese battery plants and companies.

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  17. Literally incredible–credible only to the deeply stupid, such as yourself and WarrenTheTroll. Molestie at elementum eu facilisis sed. Interdum velit laoreet id donec ultrices tincidunt arcu non. Pulvinar proin gravida hendrerit lectus a. Risus in hendrerit gravida rutrum quisque non. Suscipit adipiscing bibendum est ultricies integer quis auctor. Dictum varius duis at consectetur lorem donec. In iaculis nunc sed augue lacus viverra vitae.

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  18. Sorry, the fact I make citations which disprove you demonstrate you have no “dispute” to bring. You have only mindless, factless stupidity to bring as you claim what few anecdotes exist to be all but universal.

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  19. Tesla now produces more battery capacity than all other car manufacturers combined including China” with a run rate of approximately 20 gigawatt-hours.”” Hello overhyped Chinese battery plants and companies.”””

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  20. Literally incredible–credible only to the deeply stupid such as yourself and WarrenTheTroll.Molestie at elementum eu facilisis sed. Interdum velit laoreet id donec ultrices tincidunt arcu non. Pulvinar proin gravida hendrerit lectus a. Risus in hendrerit gravida rutrum quisque non. Suscipit adipiscing bibendum est ultricies integer quis auctor. Dictum varius duis at consectetur lorem donec. In iaculis nunc sed augue lacus viverra vitae.

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  21. Sorry the fact I make citations which disprove you demonstrate you have no dispute”” to bring.You have only mindless”””” factless stupidity to bring as you claim what few anecdotes exist to be all but universal.”””

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  22. I am reading in the net quite a lot of bad news about Tesla Car production is somehow stalling Overdued loans are coming to date And so on.. Nothing really good

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  23. Warren, that article is from March. Forbes had an update last week: http://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2018/09/02/tesla-model-3-owner-review-quality-issues-consumer-reports-customer-satisfaction/ It sounds like while the quality isn’t perfect, the customers who have received their cars are positive. Unfortunately, much of the discussion surrounding Tesla has been driven by ideological factors far more than reality. Full Disclaimer – I don’t currently have an investment stake in Tesla, but have had positions in it in the past. I decided to close out my holdings during the take private fiasco, since the stock no longer seemed to be driven by fundamentals. It does seem to be recovering now, but I am wary.

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  24. Tesla is a Battery producer where the other car manufacturers are ICE producers. Near everything around the ICE is very standardized. Like everything built around Tesla’s batteries. ICE manufacturers have the problem of converting their expertise from producing ICE to producing batteries and then engineering around these batteries. Not easy if you are a late comer and someone have already sorted many things out earlier. Tesla is obtaining a technological advantage over traditional carmakers they will have a lot of problem overcome. The same it is happening with SpaceX.

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  25. Look everyone! Look at how the Kool-Aid drinking Musk Fluffers react when cold hard facts are brought up that they don’t like! Joe — the ones AT THE SALES CENTER have already been through the rebuild process. The 80% rebuild rate are the cars that are made and then fail inspection BEFORE they ever leave the factory. But hey…you need to spazz when the harsh truth is exposed and that means complete loss of your critical thinking skills happens. Try to calm down and look at things logically. (Chances are, this is just another fake Luca account kiddies)

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  26. I have no reason to think they’d refuse to print one guy’s bad experience, or even a trend if it were a trend. No matter how you burn in electronics, some will fail shortly after going in to use. It’s WarrenTheTroll claiming 90% of them are defective, or some such nonsense.

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  27. How about you visit your local Tesla Sales Center and have a look at the Model 3’s on their lot and see how many defects you can spot? Until you have a look for yourself and have a test drive for yourself, you are not qualified to piss on Tesla or the Model 3. Grow up!!!

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  28. cells in the M-3 are not much larger than those in my battery powered drill” Actually they are probably exactly the same. 18650s are the same size in most things, from drills to bike headlights to EVs. 18650 is the battery size: 18 mm in diameter, 65 mm long. There are a whole bunch of different 18650 batteries, with different internal structures and different chemistry. But they all match the same size. It’s like a AA or D cell battery, the name just gives the size.

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  29. Why would a green car site want to castigate the Tesla? Surely they’d be more likely to overlook any faults because it’s leading the change that they have been waiting for?

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  30. Few problems? 80% rebuild rate constitutes ‘few problems’ to you, Musk Fluffer? Industry standard is 14%. Toyota’s is 10%. Explains a lot.

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  31. Ape, I’m surprised you would visit a green site like that. You might get some environmentalism on you. That stuff stains your clothes.

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  32. Still I am not sure it means that Tesla produces more batteries than all other car manufacturers and car suppliers combined This does not sound as true as China seelz more cars than Tesla I due guess So..

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  33. I am reading in the net quite a lot of bad news about Tesla Car production is somehow stalling Overdued loans are coming to date And so on.. Nothing really good

    Reply
  34. Unfortunately” much of the discussion surrounding Tesla has been driven by ideological factors far more than reality. “” “””

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  35. Warren that article is from March. Forbes had an update last week:www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2018/09/02/tesla-model-3-owner-review-quality-issues-consumer-reports-customer-satisfaction/It sounds like while the quality isn’t perfect the customers who have received their cars are positive. Unfortunately much of the discussion surrounding Tesla has been driven by ideological factors far more than reality. Full Disclaimer – I don’t currently have an investment stake in Tesla but have had positions in it in the past. I decided to close out my holdings during the take private fiasco since the stock no longer seemed to be driven by fundamentals. It does seem to be recovering now but I am wary.

    Reply
  36. Tesla is a Battery producer where the other car manufacturers are ICE producers.Near everything around the ICE is very standardized. Like everything built around Tesla’s batteries.ICE manufacturers have the problem of converting their expertise from producing ICE to producing batteries and then engineering around these batteries.Not easy if you are a late comer and someone have already sorted many things out earlier.Tesla is obtaining a technological advantage over traditional carmakers they will have a lot of problem overcome. The same it is happening with SpaceX.

    Reply
  37. Look everyone! Look at how the Kool-Aid drinking Musk Fluffers react when cold hard facts are brought up that they don’t like! Joe — the ones AT THE SALES CENTER have already been through the rebuild process. The 80{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} rebuild rate are the cars that are made and then fail inspection BEFORE they ever leave the factory.But hey…you need to spazz when the harsh truth is exposed and that means complete loss of your critical thinking skills happens. Try to calm down and look at things logically.(Chances are this is just another fake Luca account kiddies)

    Reply
  38. You have not done anything to demonstrate an 80{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} rebuild rate in any degree of rebuild””.And you won’t and can’t.”””

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  39. I have no reason to think they’d refuse to print one guy’s bad experience or even a trend if it were a trend. No matter how you burn in electronics some will fail shortly after going in to use.It’s WarrenTheTroll claiming 90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of them are defective or some such nonsense.

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  40. How about you visit your local Tesla Sales Center and have a look at the Model 3’s on their lot and see how many defects you can spot? Until you have a look for yourself and have a test drive for yourself you are not qualified to piss on Tesla or the Model 3. Grow up!!!

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  41. cells in the M-3 are not much larger than those in my battery powered drill””Actually they are probably exactly the same. 18650s are the same size in most things”” from drills to bike headlights to EVs.18650 is the battery size: 18 mm in diameter 65 mm long. There are a whole bunch of different 18650 batteries with different internal structures and different chemistry. But they all match the same size. It’s like a AA or D cell battery”” the name just gives the size.”””

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  42. Why would a green car site want to castigate the Tesla? Surely they’d be more likely to overlook any faults because it’s leading the change that they have been waiting for?

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  43. Few problems? 80{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} rebuild rate constitutes ‘few problems’ to you Musk Fluffer? Industry standard is 14{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}. Toyota’s is 10{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}.Explains a lot.

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  44. Ape I’m surprised you would visit a green site like that. You might get some environmentalism on you. That stuff stains your clothes.

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  45. I imagine that you can measure “battery capacity” in a few different ways, and that any press release will choose the measurement method that suits them best. eg. Number of cells. Number of battery packs. Number of kW.h. Kg of cells. Kg of battery packs… Even how do you measure kW.h? Is it the total energy supplied by the battery pack (when new? Average age?) when cycled between the recommended set points? Between the max and min allowable set points? Between the max and min that the chemistry allows? At what current? (Running at a lower power usually gives more total energy.) A lot of fairly prestigious companies will advertise battery packs by say multiplying the peak voltage by the total possible charge. Even though you won’t have peak voltage for much of that charge. Or they assume you are running one small LED on the system so it can discharge at the lowest rate. Assuming perfect temperature. etc. etc. Just saying that you can’t take one companies numbers and compare them to another’s.

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  46. As for loans its true tesla borrowed quite a lot to ramp up for the model 3. Tesla lost over 700 million last quarter they still hold 2.2Billion in cash and 10 Billion in long term debt. Musk expects to turn a profit in the second half of 2018. Assumimg that happens short sellers will have a very bad day.

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  47. The high failure rate article was published in nov of 17. If memory serves that was the early production shake out period and the production rate was awful. With the plant now outrunning distribution its exceptionally unlikely they still have that failure rate. I dont see how they could possibly do that much rework. As for bumpers falling off we have two examples both of which have seen substantial interest from the company. Good luck getting a call from the ceo of toyota if you happen to have a problem in the first week.

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  48. Cells in the Model 3 are a new size and tweaked chemistry developed jointly by Panasonic and Tesla. 21 by 70 mm, and called simply 2170 cells. They have about twice the capacity of 18650 cells.

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  49. Idiot, there are no overdue loans, and nothing is stalling. They are making cars at a pace that nets them at least $800mn/yr and as much as $1bn5/yr depending on margin. Lorem Ipsum to evade the damned comment system follows, per te adipisci patrioque contentiones. Vis et quis vitae, ne has prodesset appellantur. Ei vim dolorum laboramus, nullam postea iisque has ad. Ex vis justo feugait.

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  50. No Moron, if that were true, you could quote support for what you claim and the facts on balance would be bad. You only pay attention to bad news for Tesla or Musk, and act the same whether it is sourced or not. For that matter, you keep on repeating BS even if it is directly contradicted by the supposed source, for example, there is no and never was any US Air Force investigation of Musk…but you keep lying and saying there is. You are only a $tupid troll and crank.

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  51. With WarrenTheTroll it isn’t even ideology, it’s blind unreasoning, ravening hate.” Nope. It is just me exposing the whacko cult that Musk Fluffers are. Michael’s right. Tesla’s stock price isn’t driven by fundamentals. It’s driven by bullsh!t.

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  52. Still I am not sure it means that Tesla produces more batteries than all other car manufacturers and car suppliers combined This does not sound as true as China seelz more cars than Tesla I due guess So..

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  53. I imagine that you can measure battery capacity”” in a few different ways”””” and that any press release will choose the measurement method that suits them best.eg. Number of cells. Number of battery packs. Number of kW.h. Kg of cells. Kg of battery packs…Even how do you measure kW.h? Is it the total energy supplied by the battery pack (when new? Average age?) when cycled between the recommended set points? Between the max and min allowable set points? Between the max and min that the chemistry allows? At what current? (Running at a lower power usually gives more total energy.) A lot of fairly prestigious companies will advertise battery packs by say multiplying the peak voltage by the total possible charge. Even though you won’t have peak voltage for much of that charge. Or they assume you are running one small LED on the system so it can discharge at the lowest rate. Assuming perfect temperature. etc. etc.Just saying that you can’t take one companies numbers and compare them to another’s.”””

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  54. As for loans its true tesla borrowed quite a lot to ramp up for the model 3. Tesla lost over 700 million last quarter they still hold 2.2Billion in cash and 10 Billion in long term debt. Musk expects to turn a profit in the second half of 2018. Assumimg that happens short sellers will have a very bad day.

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  55. The high failure rate article was published in nov of 17. If memory serves that was the early production shake out period and the production rate was awful.With the plant now outrunning distribution its exceptionally unlikely they still have that failure rate. I dont see how they could possibly do that much rework.As for bumpers falling off we have two examples both of which have seen substantial interest from the company. Good luck getting a call from the ceo of toyota if you happen to have a problem in the first week.

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  56. Cells in the Model 3 are a new size and tweaked chemistry developed jointly by Panasonic and Tesla. 21 by 70 mm and called simply 2170 cells. They have about twice the capacity of 18650 cells.

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  57. Idiot there are no overdue loans and nothing is stalling. They are making cars at a pace that nets them at least $800mn/yr and as much as $1bn5/yr depending on margin.Lorem Ipsum to evade the damned comment system follows per te adipisci patrioque contentiones. Vis et quis vitae ne has prodesset appellantur. Ei vim dolorum laboramus nullam postea iisque has ad. Ex vis justo feugait.

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  58. No Moron if that were true you could quote support for what you claim and the facts on balance would be bad.You only pay attention to bad news for Tesla or Musk and act the same whether it is sourced or not.For that matter you keep on repeating BS even if it is directly contradicted by the supposed source for example there is no and never was any US Air Force investigation of Musk…but you keep lying and saying there is.You are only a $tupid troll and crank.

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  59. With WarrenTheTroll it isn’t even ideology it’s blind unreasoning” ravening hate.””Nope. It is just me exposing the whacko cult that Musk Fluffers are. Michael’s right. Tesla’s stock price isn’t driven by fundamentals. It’s driven by bullsh!t.”””

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  60. Internal combustion engines mostly need more than just air cooling – even a lot of motorcycles, these days – but people still buy them.

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  61. It simply is not possible to complete 6,000 cars per week and have 80% of the cars have to be repaired before they are complete. Whatever problems there might have been can’t be very common now. The other car makers evolved their cars solving problems as they emerged and learning from the past mistakes. Tesla has had to start with a modern fully featured car from scratch. They have had their learning too, as this is the 4th model, but nothing like what the other makers have under their belt. I think Tesla standards are very high generally. Quality is just going to get better and better. I don’t think the other electric cars out there are remotely close. I also suspect those 14% and 10% numbers are for very mature production lines. Most models are produced 5-7 years before there a big changes. Most changes are just cosmetic, or they have a new engine/transmission option or other random options that are basically interchangeable.

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  62. Simple electric vehicles have a prime mover over 95{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} efficient at using the energy stored in the car where IC engine cars are doing very good to use 22{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of their stored energy. That’s 95/22 right there a ratio a bit over 4 to 1.Batteries will almost certainly improve their mass and volume specific energy density by a factor of two over the next twenty years and there is precious little reason to think charge times won’t fall by half or more. It is true now a battery EV with it’s battery degraded in use to 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} is still a car and has traveled the full mileage life expectancy of an IC engine car where an IC engine car needing an engine or transmission is a lawn ornament — electrics degrade much more gracefully.IC engine cars have no chance at all. The writing was on the wall as soon as battery RC toys in high energy systems like planes and helicopters became a thing.

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  63. Internal combustion engines mostly need more than just air cooling – even a lot of motorcycles these days – but people still buy them.

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  64. It simply is not possible to complete 6000 cars per week and have 80{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of the cars have to be repaired before they are complete. Whatever problems there might have been can’t be very common now.The other car makers evolved their cars solving problems as they emerged and learning from the past mistakes. Tesla has had to start with a modern fully featured car from scratch. They have had their learning too as this is the 4th model but nothing like what the other makers have under their belt.I think Tesla standards are very high generally. Quality is just going to get better and better. I don’t think the other electric cars out there are remotely close.I also suspect those 14{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} and 10{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} numbers are for very mature production lines. Most models are produced 5-7 years before there a big changes. Most changes are just cosmetic or they have a new engine/transmission option or other random options that are basically interchangeable.

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  65. Simple, electric vehicles have a prime mover over 95% efficient at using the energy stored in the car, where IC engine cars are doing very good to use 22% of their stored energy. That’s 95/22 right there, a ratio a bit over 4 to 1. Batteries will almost certainly improve their mass and volume specific energy density by a factor of two over the next twenty years, and there is precious little reason to think charge times won’t fall by half or more. It is true now a battery EV with it’s battery degraded in use to 50% is still a car and has traveled the full mileage life expectancy of an IC engine car, where an IC engine car needing an engine or transmission is a lawn ornament — electrics degrade much more gracefully. IC engine cars have no chance at all. The writing was on the wall as soon as battery RC toys in high energy systems like planes and helicopters became a thing.

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  66. Speaketh thou, the fool troll stupid enough to think we might believe he doesn’t hoover up all the bad news about Tesla it can. Your definition of “Musk fluffer” must be anyone who looks at the good and bad about Tesla. You only look at the bad.

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  67. All true. But doesn’t change the fact what is happening to Tesla. EVs are coming. But it won’t be Tesla that will dominate the market. Instead, it will be a footnote in history right along side the Studebaker.

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  68. I don’t have to. This has been well reported by others. The reality is what it is, regardless of the lies of delusion you tell yourself to avoid acknowledging otherwise.

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  69. You only pay attention to bad news for Tesla or Musk” No. I don’t have to pay attention….the attention comes to me all on its own. I just post it here to flip out your Musk Fluffers.

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  70. Batteries will almost certainly improve their mass and volume specific energy density by a factor of two over the next twenty years…” YES…over TWENTY YEARS. Meanwhile, Tesla has to meet get into the black within 12 months or so. “IC engine cars have no chance at all. ” Wrong. Just because they are so inefficient doesn’t mean that they can not be improved. In fact, there are ways to do that that just haven’t been implemented yet. Not to mention that the electric grid will not be able to handle EV car demand w/o major investment…and people with ICE cars will not vote to support an infrastructure for virtue signalling rich people.

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  71. Speaketh thou the fool troll stupid enough to think we might believe he doesn’t hoover up all the bad news about Tesla it can.Your definition of Musk fluffer”” must be anyone who looks at the good and bad about Tesla. You only look at the bad.”””

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  72. All true. But doesn’t change the fact what is happening to Tesla.EVs are coming. But it won’t be Tesla that will dominate the market. Instead it will be a footnote in history right along side the Studebaker.

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  73. I don’t have to. This has been well reported by others. The reality is what it is regardless of the lies of delusion you tell yourself to avoid acknowledging otherwise.

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  74. You only pay attention to bad news for Tesla or Musk””No. I don’t have to pay attention….the attention comes to me all on its own. I just post it here to flip out your Musk Fluffers.”””

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  75. Batteries will almost certainly improve their mass and volume specific energy density by a factor of two over the next twenty years…””YES…over TWENTY YEARS.Meanwhile”””” Tesla has to meet get into the black within 12 months or so. “”””IC engine cars have no chance at all. “”””Wrong. Just because they are so inefficient doesn’t mean that they can not be improved. In fact”””” there are ways to do that that just haven’t been implemented yet. Not to mention that the electric grid will not be able to handle EV car demand w/o major investment…and people with ICE cars will not vote to support an infrastructure for virtue signalling rich people.”””

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  76. Putin has paid trolls running US nuclear plants? Quick report him to the FBI! Alternately stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a Putin troll.

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  77. How about you visit your local Tesla Sales Center and have a look at the Model 3’s on their lot” Tesla sales centers do not have car lots. Tesla’s are built to order. Learn about the company you are advocating for as it will make your posts a bit more believable.

    Reply
  78. EVs are coming. But it won’t be Tesla that will dominate the market.” Yep. Tesla will be beat by a company that makes 200 mile EVs and has build quality. It is harder to build reliable cars than it is to make batteries.

    Reply
  79. Why are you pretending the few problems that leave the factory are representative? ” Which factory? The building or the tent? I wonder why Mercedes doesn’t build cars in tents.

    Reply
  80. ICE manufacturers have the problem of converting their expertise from producing ICE to producing batteries and then engineering around these batteries. ” Making reliable cars is harder than making batteries. This is what Tesla is finding out.

    Reply
  81. Putin has paid trolls running US nuclear plants? Quick report him to the FBI!Alternately stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a Putin troll.

    Reply
  82. How about you visit your local Tesla Sales Center and have a look at the Model 3’s on their lot””Tesla sales centers do not have car lots. Tesla’s are built to order.Learn about the company you are advocating for as it will make your posts a bit more believable.”””

    Reply
  83. EVs are coming. But it won’t be Tesla that will dominate the market.””Yep. Tesla will be beat by a company that makes 200 mile EVs and has build quality. It is harder to build reliable cars than it is to make batteries.”””

    Reply
  84. Why are you pretending the few problems that leave the factory are representative? “”Which factory? The building or the tent?I wonder why Mercedes doesn’t build cars in tents.”””

    Reply
  85. ICE manufacturers have the problem of converting their expertise from producing ICE to producing batteries and then engineering around these batteries. “”Making reliable cars is harder than making batteries. This is what Tesla is finding out.”””

    Reply
  86. Bloomberg’s Tracker has always been within 10% of what Tesla reports, and averaged better. Which ones are you saying are wrong?

    Reply
  87. Bloomberg’s Tracker has always been within 10{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of what Tesla reports and averaged better. Which ones are you saying are wrong?

    Reply
  88. BEV gets another % point efficiency, that equals what it takes a gasoline car a 4% improvement to equal–it can store 4% more gas, or it can get 4% more efficiency for the same amount of gas. It is certainly not the reverse. “the cost of providing an extra watt.hour in the storage system

    Reply
  89. And I have posted here what proves what allege is wrong. The delusions are all yours. Typos, why does this website have comments that cannot be edited?

    Reply
  90. BEV gets another {22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} point efficiency that equals what it takes a gasoline car a 4{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} improvement to equal–it can store 4{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} more gas or it can get 4{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} more efficiency for the same amount of gas. It is certainly not the reverse.the cost of providing an extra watt.hour in the storage system”” “””

    Reply
  91. And I have posted here what proves what allege is wrong. The delusions are all yours. Typos why does this website have comments that cannot be edited?

    Reply
  92. I’m also having difficulty with these statements regarding the chemical “efficiency” of the ICE since the electricity tends to come from thermal generating stations with typical efficiency of 30-40%.

    Reply
  93. I’m also having difficulty with these statements regarding the chemical efficiency”” of the ICE since the electricity tends to come from thermal generating stations with typical efficiency of 30-40{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}.”””

    Reply
  94. power-eng*com/articles/print/volume-106/issue-8/features/new-benchmarks-for-steam-turbine-efficiency*html Replace * with . Current steam plants are approaching 50% efficiency and I think their costs for petroleum fuel amount to about 33% or less of gas pump prices — these are places with a pipeline from the terminal to their ready tanks in some cases. Their fuel is cheap.

    Reply
  95. power-eng*com/articles/print/volume-106/issue-8/features/new-benchmarks-for-steam-turbine-efficiency*htmlReplace * with . Current steam plants are approaching 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} efficiency and I think their costs for petroleum fuel amount to about 33{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} or less of gas pump prices — these are places with a pipeline from the terminal to their ready tanks in some cases. Their fuel is cheap.

    Reply
  96. power-eng*com/articles/print/volume-106/issue-8/features/new-benchmarks-for-steam-turbine-efficiency*html Replace * with . Current steam plants are approaching 50% efficiency and I think their costs for petroleum fuel amount to about 33% or less of gas pump prices — these are places with a pipeline from the terminal to their ready tanks in some cases. Their fuel is cheap.

    Reply
  97. power-eng*com/articles/print/volume-106/issue-8/features/new-benchmarks-for-steam-turbine-efficiency*htmlReplace * with . Current steam plants are approaching 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} efficiency and I think their costs for petroleum fuel amount to about 33{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} or less of gas pump prices — these are places with a pipeline from the terminal to their ready tanks in some cases. Their fuel is cheap.

    Reply
  98. power-eng*com/articles/print/volume-106/issue-8/features/new-benchmarks-for-steam-turbine-efficiency*html

    Replace * with . Current steam plants are approaching 50% efficiency and I think their costs for petroleum fuel amount to about 33% or less of gas pump prices — these are places with a pipeline from the terminal to their ready tanks in some cases. Their fuel is cheap.

    Reply
  99. I’m also having difficulty with these statements regarding the chemical “efficiency” of the ICE since the electricity tends to come from thermal generating stations with typical efficiency of 30-40%.

    Reply
  100. I’m also having difficulty with these statements regarding the chemical efficiency”” of the ICE since the electricity tends to come from thermal generating stations with typical efficiency of 30-40{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}.”””

    Reply
  101. I’m also having difficulty with these statements regarding the chemical “efficiency” of the ICE since the electricity tends to come from thermal generating stations with typical efficiency of 30-40%.

    Reply
  102. BEV gets another % point efficiency, that equals what it takes a gasoline car a 4% improvement to equal–it can store 4% more gas, or it can get 4% more efficiency for the same amount of gas. It is certainly not the reverse. “the cost of providing an extra watt.hour in the storage system

    Reply
  103. BEV gets another {22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} point efficiency that equals what it takes a gasoline car a 4{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} improvement to equal–it can store 4{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} more gas or it can get 4{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} more efficiency for the same amount of gas. It is certainly not the reverse.the cost of providing an extra watt.hour in the storage system”” “””

    Reply
  104. And I have posted here what proves what allege is wrong. The delusions are all yours. Typos, why does this website have comments that cannot be edited?

    Reply
  105. And I have posted here what proves what allege is wrong. The delusions are all yours. Typos why does this website have comments that cannot be edited?

    Reply
  106. Bloomberg’s Tracker has always been within 10{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of what Tesla reports and averaged better. Which ones are you saying are wrong?

    Reply
  107. Putin has paid trolls running US nuclear plants? Quick report him to the FBI! Alternately stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a Putin troll.

    Reply
  108. Putin has paid trolls running US nuclear plants? Quick report him to the FBI!Alternately stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a Putin troll.

    Reply
  109. How about you visit your local Tesla Sales Center and have a look at the Model 3’s on their lot” Tesla sales centers do not have car lots. Tesla’s are built to order. Learn about the company you are advocating for as it will make your posts a bit more believable.

    Reply
  110. How about you visit your local Tesla Sales Center and have a look at the Model 3’s on their lot””Tesla sales centers do not have car lots. Tesla’s are built to order.Learn about the company you are advocating for as it will make your posts a bit more believable.”””

    Reply
  111. EVs are coming. But it won’t be Tesla that will dominate the market.” Yep. Tesla will be beat by a company that makes 200 mile EVs and has build quality. It is harder to build reliable cars than it is to make batteries.

    Reply
  112. EVs are coming. But it won’t be Tesla that will dominate the market.””Yep. Tesla will be beat by a company that makes 200 mile EVs and has build quality. It is harder to build reliable cars than it is to make batteries.”””

    Reply
  113. Why are you pretending the few problems that leave the factory are representative? ” Which factory? The building or the tent? I wonder why Mercedes doesn’t build cars in tents.

    Reply
  114. Why are you pretending the few problems that leave the factory are representative? “”Which factory? The building or the tent?I wonder why Mercedes doesn’t build cars in tents.”””

    Reply
  115. ICE manufacturers have the problem of converting their expertise from producing ICE to producing batteries and then engineering around these batteries. ” Making reliable cars is harder than making batteries. This is what Tesla is finding out.

    Reply
  116. ICE manufacturers have the problem of converting their expertise from producing ICE to producing batteries and then engineering around these batteries. “”Making reliable cars is harder than making batteries. This is what Tesla is finding out.”””

    Reply
  117. Speaketh thou, the fool troll stupid enough to think we might believe he doesn’t hoover up all the bad news about Tesla it can. Your definition of “Musk fluffer” must be anyone who looks at the good and bad about Tesla. You only look at the bad.

    Reply
  118. Speaketh thou the fool troll stupid enough to think we might believe he doesn’t hoover up all the bad news about Tesla it can.Your definition of Musk fluffer”” must be anyone who looks at the good and bad about Tesla. You only look at the bad.”””

    Reply
  119. All true. But doesn’t change the fact what is happening to Tesla. EVs are coming. But it won’t be Tesla that will dominate the market. Instead, it will be a footnote in history right along side the Studebaker.

    Reply
  120. All true. But doesn’t change the fact what is happening to Tesla.EVs are coming. But it won’t be Tesla that will dominate the market. Instead it will be a footnote in history right along side the Studebaker.

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  121. I don’t have to. This has been well reported by others. The reality is what it is, regardless of the lies of delusion you tell yourself to avoid acknowledging otherwise.

    Reply
  122. I don’t have to. This has been well reported by others. The reality is what it is regardless of the lies of delusion you tell yourself to avoid acknowledging otherwise.

    Reply
  123. You only pay attention to bad news for Tesla or Musk” No. I don’t have to pay attention….the attention comes to me all on its own. I just post it here to flip out your Musk Fluffers.

    Reply
  124. You only pay attention to bad news for Tesla or Musk””No. I don’t have to pay attention….the attention comes to me all on its own. I just post it here to flip out your Musk Fluffers.”””

    Reply
  125. Batteries will almost certainly improve their mass and volume specific energy density by a factor of two over the next twenty years…” YES…over TWENTY YEARS. Meanwhile, Tesla has to meet get into the black within 12 months or so. “IC engine cars have no chance at all. ” Wrong. Just because they are so inefficient doesn’t mean that they can not be improved. In fact, there are ways to do that that just haven’t been implemented yet. Not to mention that the electric grid will not be able to handle EV car demand w/o major investment…and people with ICE cars will not vote to support an infrastructure for virtue signalling rich people.

    Reply
  126. Batteries will almost certainly improve their mass and volume specific energy density by a factor of two over the next twenty years…””YES…over TWENTY YEARS.Meanwhile”””” Tesla has to meet get into the black within 12 months or so. “”””IC engine cars have no chance at all. “”””Wrong. Just because they are so inefficient doesn’t mean that they can not be improved. In fact”””” there are ways to do that that just haven’t been implemented yet. Not to mention that the electric grid will not be able to handle EV car demand w/o major investment…and people with ICE cars will not vote to support an infrastructure for virtue signalling rich people.”””

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  127. Simple, electric vehicles have a prime mover over 95% efficient at using the energy stored in the car, where IC engine cars are doing very good to use 22% of their stored energy. That’s 95/22 right there, a ratio a bit over 4 to 1. Batteries will almost certainly improve their mass and volume specific energy density by a factor of two over the next twenty years, and there is precious little reason to think charge times won’t fall by half or more. It is true now a battery EV with it’s battery degraded in use to 50% is still a car and has traveled the full mileage life expectancy of an IC engine car, where an IC engine car needing an engine or transmission is a lawn ornament — electrics degrade much more gracefully. IC engine cars have no chance at all. The writing was on the wall as soon as battery RC toys in high energy systems like planes and helicopters became a thing.

    Reply
  128. Simple electric vehicles have a prime mover over 95{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} efficient at using the energy stored in the car where IC engine cars are doing very good to use 22{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of their stored energy. That’s 95/22 right there a ratio a bit over 4 to 1.Batteries will almost certainly improve their mass and volume specific energy density by a factor of two over the next twenty years and there is precious little reason to think charge times won’t fall by half or more. It is true now a battery EV with it’s battery degraded in use to 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} is still a car and has traveled the full mileage life expectancy of an IC engine car where an IC engine car needing an engine or transmission is a lawn ornament — electrics degrade much more gracefully.IC engine cars have no chance at all. The writing was on the wall as soon as battery RC toys in high energy systems like planes and helicopters became a thing.

    Reply
  129. BEV gets another % point efficiency, that equals what it takes a gasoline car a 4% improvement to equal–it can store 4% more gas, or it can get 4% more efficiency for the same amount of gas. It is certainly not the reverse.

    “the cost of providing an extra watt.hour in the storage system” <-- Or the avoided cost of needing to provide more storage, because efficiency improved. If you want to look at it like this, ~the gasoline car improves far more drastically over it's current performance by improving 1%, because that 1% is a far larger fraction of it's current piss-poor efficiency in it's using it's far more expensive stored energy~ I'll go with that, but I still think that makes my point.

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  130. Your math doesn’t actually demonstrate “<-- The fundamentals are that for every 1% batteries improve, IC cars have to improve 4% just to stay even," What you've demonstrated is "for every 1 watt batteries improve, IC cars have to improve 1/4 watts just to stay even," Which is the reverse. On a % basis they are equal. The rest of the post is missing the point. The fact that - Today, mid 2018, EVs are competitive with ICVs for many applications - EVs are improving at a faster rate, and with a lot further room to improve before they reach theoretical limits - Therefore EVs will probably take over. Yes, no argument there. But the 1:4 ratio thing isn't right unless you are measuring something like "the cost of providing an extra watt.hour in the storage system".

    Reply
  131. “How about you visit your local Tesla Sales Center and have a look at the Model 3’s on their lot”

    Tesla sales centers do not have car lots. Tesla’s are built to order.

    Learn about the company you are advocating for as it will make your posts a bit more believable.

    Reply
  132. “EVs are coming. But it won’t be Tesla that will dominate the market.”

    Yep. Tesla will be beat by a company that makes 200 mile EVs and has build quality. It is harder to build reliable cars than it is to make batteries.

    Reply
  133. “ICE manufacturers have the problem of converting their expertise from producing ICE to producing batteries and then engineering around these batteries. ”

    Making reliable cars is harder than making batteries. This is what Tesla is finding out.

    Reply
  134. Internal combustion engines mostly need more than just air cooling – even a lot of motorcycles, these days – but people still buy them.

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  135. Internal combustion engines mostly need more than just air cooling – even a lot of motorcycles these days – but people still buy them.

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  136. Speaketh thou, the fool troll stupid enough to think we might believe he doesn’t hoover up all the bad news about Tesla it can.

    Your definition of “Musk fluffer” must be anyone who looks at the good and bad about Tesla. You only look at the bad.

    Reply
  137. ” YES…over TWENTY YEARS. ” <-- So what? They are at par with the utility of gasoline now. " Meanwhile, Tesla has to meet get into the black within 12 months or so. " <-- No, they don't need to do that for a decade or more, and it would be them stooping to satisfy the most shortsighted investors to do so. They need all their margin and investment to go towards growth for a long time. " Just because they are so inefficient doesn't mean that they can not be improved. In fact, there are ways to do that that just haven't been implemented yet. " <-- And with gasoline so very high for so very long, no such improvements, even the easier ones, were implemented. That's because they aren't that easy, and they raise cost while lowering reliability quite a bit. " Not to mention that the electric grid will not be able to handle EV car demand w/o major investment " <-- Not true, because cars tend to be charged when people aren't using peak power. They are base load levelers, not peak loads. " and people with ICE cars will not vote to support an infrastructure for virtue signalling rich people " <-- Which claim is just you proclaiming your unintelligent supposition as to who buys battery EVs from here on out, which is anyone who can. As price continues to fall, that's anybody. So you're wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. And that's just in that one comment.

    Reply
  138. All true. But doesn’t change the fact what is happening to Tesla.

    EVs are coming. But it won’t be Tesla that will dominate the market. Instead, it will be a footnote in history right along side the Studebaker.

    Reply
  139. “You only pay attention to bad news for Tesla or Musk”

    No. I don’t have to pay attention….the attention comes to me all on its own.

    I just post it here to flip out your Musk Fluffers.

    Reply
  140. “Batteries will almost certainly improve their mass and volume specific energy density by a factor of two over the next twenty years…”

    YES…over TWENTY YEARS.

    Meanwhile, Tesla has to meet get into the black within 12 months or so.

    “IC engine cars have no chance at all. ”

    Wrong. Just because they are so inefficient doesn’t mean that they can not be improved. In fact, there are ways to do that that just haven’t been implemented yet. Not to mention that the electric grid will not be able to handle EV car demand w/o major investment…and people with ICE cars will not vote to support an infrastructure for virtue signalling rich people.

    Reply
  141. It simply is not possible to complete 6,000 cars per week and have 80% of the cars have to be repaired before they are complete. Whatever problems there might have been can’t be very common now. The other car makers evolved their cars solving problems as they emerged and learning from the past mistakes. Tesla has had to start with a modern fully featured car from scratch. They have had their learning too, as this is the 4th model, but nothing like what the other makers have under their belt. I think Tesla standards are very high generally. Quality is just going to get better and better. I don’t think the other electric cars out there are remotely close. I also suspect those 14% and 10% numbers are for very mature production lines. Most models are produced 5-7 years before there a big changes. Most changes are just cosmetic, or they have a new engine/transmission option or other random options that are basically interchangeable.

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  142. It simply is not possible to complete 6000 cars per week and have 80{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of the cars have to be repaired before they are complete. Whatever problems there might have been can’t be very common now.The other car makers evolved their cars solving problems as they emerged and learning from the past mistakes. Tesla has had to start with a modern fully featured car from scratch. They have had their learning too as this is the 4th model but nothing like what the other makers have under their belt.I think Tesla standards are very high generally. Quality is just going to get better and better. I don’t think the other electric cars out there are remotely close.I also suspect those 14{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} and 10{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} numbers are for very mature production lines. Most models are produced 5-7 years before there a big changes. Most changes are just cosmetic or they have a new engine/transmission option or other random options that are basically interchangeable.

    Reply
  143. I imagine that you can measure “battery capacity” in a few different ways, and that any press release will choose the measurement method that suits them best. eg. Number of cells. Number of battery packs. Number of kW.h. Kg of cells. Kg of battery packs… Even how do you measure kW.h? Is it the total energy supplied by the battery pack (when new? Average age?) when cycled between the recommended set points? Between the max and min allowable set points? Between the max and min that the chemistry allows? At what current? (Running at a lower power usually gives more total energy.) A lot of fairly prestigious companies will advertise battery packs by say multiplying the peak voltage by the total possible charge. Even though you won’t have peak voltage for much of that charge. Or they assume you are running one small LED on the system so it can discharge at the lowest rate. Assuming perfect temperature. etc. etc. Just saying that you can’t take one companies numbers and compare them to another’s.

    Reply
  144. I imagine that you can measure battery capacity”” in a few different ways”””” and that any press release will choose the measurement method that suits them best.eg. Number of cells. Number of battery packs. Number of kW.h. Kg of cells. Kg of battery packs…Even how do you measure kW.h? Is it the total energy supplied by the battery pack (when new? Average age?) when cycled between the recommended set points? Between the max and min allowable set points? Between the max and min that the chemistry allows? At what current? (Running at a lower power usually gives more total energy.) A lot of fairly prestigious companies will advertise battery packs by say multiplying the peak voltage by the total possible charge. Even though you won’t have peak voltage for much of that charge. Or they assume you are running one small LED on the system so it can discharge at the lowest rate. Assuming perfect temperature. etc. etc.Just saying that you can’t take one companies numbers and compare them to another’s.”””

    Reply
  145. As for loans its true tesla borrowed quite a lot to ramp up for the model 3. Tesla lost over 700 million last quarter they still hold 2.2Billion in cash and 10 Billion in long term debt. Musk expects to turn a profit in the second half of 2018. Assumimg that happens short sellers will have a very bad day.

    Reply
  146. As for loans its true tesla borrowed quite a lot to ramp up for the model 3. Tesla lost over 700 million last quarter they still hold 2.2Billion in cash and 10 Billion in long term debt. Musk expects to turn a profit in the second half of 2018. Assumimg that happens short sellers will have a very bad day.

    Reply
  147. The high failure rate article was published in nov of 17. If memory serves that was the early production shake out period and the production rate was awful. With the plant now outrunning distribution its exceptionally unlikely they still have that failure rate. I dont see how they could possibly do that much rework. As for bumpers falling off we have two examples both of which have seen substantial interest from the company. Good luck getting a call from the ceo of toyota if you happen to have a problem in the first week.

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  148. The high failure rate article was published in nov of 17. If memory serves that was the early production shake out period and the production rate was awful.With the plant now outrunning distribution its exceptionally unlikely they still have that failure rate. I dont see how they could possibly do that much rework.As for bumpers falling off we have two examples both of which have seen substantial interest from the company. Good luck getting a call from the ceo of toyota if you happen to have a problem in the first week.

    Reply
  149. Cells in the Model 3 are a new size and tweaked chemistry developed jointly by Panasonic and Tesla. 21 by 70 mm, and called simply 2170 cells. They have about twice the capacity of 18650 cells.

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  150. Cells in the Model 3 are a new size and tweaked chemistry developed jointly by Panasonic and Tesla. 21 by 70 mm and called simply 2170 cells. They have about twice the capacity of 18650 cells.

    Reply
  151. Simple, electric vehicles have a prime mover over 95% efficient at using the energy stored in the car, where IC engine cars are doing very good to use 22% of their stored energy. That’s 95/22 right there, a ratio a bit over 4 to 1.

    Batteries will almost certainly improve their mass and volume specific energy density by a factor of two over the next twenty years, and there is precious little reason to think charge times won’t fall by half or more. It is true now a battery EV with it’s battery degraded in use to 50% is still a car and has traveled the full mileage life expectancy of an IC engine car, where an IC engine car needing an engine or transmission is a lawn ornament — electrics degrade much more gracefully.

    IC engine cars have no chance at all. The writing was on the wall as soon as battery RC toys in high energy systems like planes and helicopters became a thing.

    Reply
  152. Idiot, there are no overdue loans, and nothing is stalling. They are making cars at a pace that nets them at least $800mn/yr and as much as $1bn5/yr depending on margin. Lorem Ipsum to evade the damned comment system follows, per te adipisci patrioque contentiones. Vis et quis vitae, ne has prodesset appellantur. Ei vim dolorum laboramus, nullam postea iisque has ad. Ex vis justo feugait.

    Reply
  153. Idiot there are no overdue loans and nothing is stalling. They are making cars at a pace that nets them at least $800mn/yr and as much as $1bn5/yr depending on margin.Lorem Ipsum to evade the damned comment system follows per te adipisci patrioque contentiones. Vis et quis vitae ne has prodesset appellantur. Ei vim dolorum laboramus nullam postea iisque has ad. Ex vis justo feugait.

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  154. No Moron, if that were true, you could quote support for what you claim and the facts on balance would be bad. You only pay attention to bad news for Tesla or Musk, and act the same whether it is sourced or not. For that matter, you keep on repeating BS even if it is directly contradicted by the supposed source, for example, there is no and never was any US Air Force investigation of Musk…but you keep lying and saying there is. You are only a $tupid troll and crank.

    Reply
  155. No Moron if that were true you could quote support for what you claim and the facts on balance would be bad.You only pay attention to bad news for Tesla or Musk and act the same whether it is sourced or not.For that matter you keep on repeating BS even if it is directly contradicted by the supposed source for example there is no and never was any US Air Force investigation of Musk…but you keep lying and saying there is.You are only a $tupid troll and crank.

    Reply
  156. With WarrenTheTroll it isn’t even ideology, it’s blind unreasoning, ravening hate.” Nope. It is just me exposing the whacko cult that Musk Fluffers are. Michael’s right. Tesla’s stock price isn’t driven by fundamentals. It’s driven by bullsh!t.

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  157. With WarrenTheTroll it isn’t even ideology it’s blind unreasoning” ravening hate.””Nope. It is just me exposing the whacko cult that Musk Fluffers are. Michael’s right. Tesla’s stock price isn’t driven by fundamentals. It’s driven by bullsh!t.”””

    Reply
  158. Still I am not sure it means that Tesla produces more batteries than all other car manufacturers and car suppliers combined This does not sound as true as China seelz more cars than Tesla I due guess So..

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  159. Still I am not sure it means that Tesla produces more batteries than all other car manufacturers and car suppliers combined This does not sound as true as China seelz more cars than Tesla I due guess So..

    Reply
  160. I am reading in the net quite a lot of bad news about Tesla Car production is somehow stalling Overdued loans are coming to date And so on.. Nothing really good

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  161. I am reading in the net quite a lot of bad news about Tesla Car production is somehow stalling Overdued loans are coming to date And so on.. Nothing really good

    Reply
  162. Unfortunately” much of the discussion surrounding Tesla has been driven by ideological factors far more than reality. “” “””

    Reply
  163. Warren, that article is from March. Forbes had an update last week: http://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2018/09/02/tesla-model-3-owner-review-quality-issues-consumer-reports-customer-satisfaction/ It sounds like while the quality isn’t perfect, the customers who have received their cars are positive. Unfortunately, much of the discussion surrounding Tesla has been driven by ideological factors far more than reality. Full Disclaimer – I don’t currently have an investment stake in Tesla, but have had positions in it in the past. I decided to close out my holdings during the take private fiasco, since the stock no longer seemed to be driven by fundamentals. It does seem to be recovering now, but I am wary.

    Reply
  164. Warren that article is from March. Forbes had an update last week:www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2018/09/02/tesla-model-3-owner-review-quality-issues-consumer-reports-customer-satisfaction/It sounds like while the quality isn’t perfect the customers who have received their cars are positive. Unfortunately much of the discussion surrounding Tesla has been driven by ideological factors far more than reality. Full Disclaimer – I don’t currently have an investment stake in Tesla but have had positions in it in the past. I decided to close out my holdings during the take private fiasco since the stock no longer seemed to be driven by fundamentals. It does seem to be recovering now but I am wary.

    Reply
  165. Tesla is a Battery producer where the other car manufacturers are ICE producers. Near everything around the ICE is very standardized. Like everything built around Tesla’s batteries. ICE manufacturers have the problem of converting their expertise from producing ICE to producing batteries and then engineering around these batteries. Not easy if you are a late comer and someone have already sorted many things out earlier. Tesla is obtaining a technological advantage over traditional carmakers they will have a lot of problem overcome. The same it is happening with SpaceX.

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  166. Tesla is a Battery producer where the other car manufacturers are ICE producers.Near everything around the ICE is very standardized. Like everything built around Tesla’s batteries.ICE manufacturers have the problem of converting their expertise from producing ICE to producing batteries and then engineering around these batteries.Not easy if you are a late comer and someone have already sorted many things out earlier.Tesla is obtaining a technological advantage over traditional carmakers they will have a lot of problem overcome. The same it is happening with SpaceX.

    Reply
  167. Look everyone! Look at how the Kool-Aid drinking Musk Fluffers react when cold hard facts are brought up that they don’t like! Joe — the ones AT THE SALES CENTER have already been through the rebuild process. The 80% rebuild rate are the cars that are made and then fail inspection BEFORE they ever leave the factory. But hey…you need to spazz when the harsh truth is exposed and that means complete loss of your critical thinking skills happens. Try to calm down and look at things logically. (Chances are, this is just another fake Luca account kiddies)

    Reply
  168. Look everyone! Look at how the Kool-Aid drinking Musk Fluffers react when cold hard facts are brought up that they don’t like! Joe — the ones AT THE SALES CENTER have already been through the rebuild process. The 80{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} rebuild rate are the cars that are made and then fail inspection BEFORE they ever leave the factory.But hey…you need to spazz when the harsh truth is exposed and that means complete loss of your critical thinking skills happens. Try to calm down and look at things logically.(Chances are this is just another fake Luca account kiddies)

    Reply
  169. You have not done anything to demonstrate an 80{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} rebuild rate in any degree of rebuild””.And you won’t and can’t.”””

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  170. I have no reason to think they’d refuse to print one guy’s bad experience, or even a trend if it were a trend. No matter how you burn in electronics, some will fail shortly after going in to use. It’s WarrenTheTroll claiming 90% of them are defective, or some such nonsense.

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  171. I have no reason to think they’d refuse to print one guy’s bad experience or even a trend if it were a trend. No matter how you burn in electronics some will fail shortly after going in to use.It’s WarrenTheTroll claiming 90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of them are defective or some such nonsense.

    Reply
  172. How about you visit your local Tesla Sales Center and have a look at the Model 3’s on their lot and see how many defects you can spot? Until you have a look for yourself and have a test drive for yourself, you are not qualified to piss on Tesla or the Model 3. Grow up!!!

    Reply
  173. How about you visit your local Tesla Sales Center and have a look at the Model 3’s on their lot and see how many defects you can spot? Until you have a look for yourself and have a test drive for yourself you are not qualified to piss on Tesla or the Model 3. Grow up!!!

    Reply
  174. cells in the M-3 are not much larger than those in my battery powered drill” Actually they are probably exactly the same. 18650s are the same size in most things, from drills to bike headlights to EVs. 18650 is the battery size: 18 mm in diameter, 65 mm long. There are a whole bunch of different 18650 batteries, with different internal structures and different chemistry. But they all match the same size. It’s like a AA or D cell battery, the name just gives the size.

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  175. cells in the M-3 are not much larger than those in my battery powered drill””Actually they are probably exactly the same. 18650s are the same size in most things”” from drills to bike headlights to EVs.18650 is the battery size: 18 mm in diameter 65 mm long. There are a whole bunch of different 18650 batteries with different internal structures and different chemistry. But they all match the same size. It’s like a AA or D cell battery”” the name just gives the size.”””

    Reply
  176. Why would a green car site want to castigate the Tesla? Surely they’d be more likely to overlook any faults because it’s leading the change that they have been waiting for?

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  177. Why would a green car site want to castigate the Tesla? Surely they’d be more likely to overlook any faults because it’s leading the change that they have been waiting for?

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  178. Few problems? 80% rebuild rate constitutes ‘few problems’ to you, Musk Fluffer? Industry standard is 14%. Toyota’s is 10%. Explains a lot.

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  179. Few problems? 80{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} rebuild rate constitutes ‘few problems’ to you Musk Fluffer? Industry standard is 14{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}. Toyota’s is 10{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}.Explains a lot.

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  180. Ape, I’m surprised you would visit a green site like that. You might get some environmentalism on you. That stuff stains your clothes.

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  181. Ape I’m surprised you would visit a green site like that. You might get some environmentalism on you. That stuff stains your clothes.

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  182. Tesla now produces more battery capacity than all other car manufacturers combined, including China, with a run rate of approximately 20 gigawatt-hours.” Hello overhyped Chinese battery plants and companies.

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  183. Tesla now produces more battery capacity than all other car manufacturers combined including China” with a run rate of approximately 20 gigawatt-hours.”” Hello overhyped Chinese battery plants and companies.”””

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  184. Literally incredible–credible only to the deeply stupid, such as yourself and WarrenTheTroll. Molestie at elementum eu facilisis sed. Interdum velit laoreet id donec ultrices tincidunt arcu non. Pulvinar proin gravida hendrerit lectus a. Risus in hendrerit gravida rutrum quisque non. Suscipit adipiscing bibendum est ultricies integer quis auctor. Dictum varius duis at consectetur lorem donec. In iaculis nunc sed augue lacus viverra vitae.

    Reply
  185. Literally incredible–credible only to the deeply stupid such as yourself and WarrenTheTroll.Molestie at elementum eu facilisis sed. Interdum velit laoreet id donec ultrices tincidunt arcu non. Pulvinar proin gravida hendrerit lectus a. Risus in hendrerit gravida rutrum quisque non. Suscipit adipiscing bibendum est ultricies integer quis auctor. Dictum varius duis at consectetur lorem donec. In iaculis nunc sed augue lacus viverra vitae.

    Reply
  186. Sorry, the fact I make citations which disprove you demonstrate you have no “dispute” to bring. You have only mindless, factless stupidity to bring as you claim what few anecdotes exist to be all but universal.

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  187. Sorry the fact I make citations which disprove you demonstrate you have no dispute”” to bring.You have only mindless”””” factless stupidity to bring as you claim what few anecdotes exist to be all but universal.”””

    Reply
  188. Sorry, but your standing as a Total Musk Worshipping Kool-Aid Drinker has totally destroyed whatever credibility you had to dispute anything.

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  189. Sorry but your standing as a Total Musk Worshipping Kool-Aid Drinker has totally destroyed whatever credibility you had to dispute anything.

    Reply
  190. No they are not endemic. 90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} defective right when it comes off the production line! “” “””

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  191. Canadians have been getting them already, and it’s like a whole ‘nother country. ” That doesn’t prove that they meet their production targets. “WarrenTheApe is already sure it’s all imaginary and not happening.” Nope. I have fully stated that they will produce…crap. Like they have last year. Some months they had 90% defective units right off the production floor line.

    Reply
  192. Canadians have been getting them already” and it’s like a whole ‘nother country. “”That doesn’t prove that they meet their production targets. “”””WarrenTheApe is already sure it’s all imaginary and not happening.””””Nope. I have fully stated that they will produce…crap. Like they have last year. Some months they had 90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} defective units right off the production floor line.”””

    Reply
  193. What ‘few’ problems? These are endemic. The vast majority of Tesla cars that roll off the assembly line in Fremont each day have flaws that need to be fixed in post-production, Reuters reports, citing nine unnamed sources. Some months, more than 90 percent of the cars the company makes need to be fixed, according to internal quality control reports that Reuters saw but was unable to independently verify. Post-production fixes are expensive and can lead to production bottlenecks. Major automakers like Toyota Motor Corp. routinely see production defects on less than 10 percent of their cars. 90% defective right when it comes off the production line! hbit.ly/2jBDNIl Who’s lying now, Matteo?

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  194. What ‘few’ problems? These are endemic.The vast majority of Tesla cars that roll off the assembly line in Fremont each day have flaws that need to be fixed in post-production Reuters reports citing nine unnamed sources.Some months more than 90 percent of the cars the company makes need to be fixed according to internal quality control reports that Reuters saw but was unable to independently verify.Post-production fixes are expensive and can lead to production bottlenecks. Major automakers like Toyota Motor Corp. routinely see production defects on less than 10 percent of their cars.90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} defective right when it comes off the production line!hbit.ly/2jBDNIlWho’s lying now Matteo?

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  195. So what Warren? Why are you pretending the few problems that leave the factory are representative? Oh yeah, you’re just a lying troll.

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  196. So what Warren? Why are you pretending the few problems that leave the factory are representative?Oh yeah you’re just a lying troll.

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  197. They can make all the crap that they want: It will still be crap. Bumpers that fall off because rain water collects inside and they get too heavy? Tesla crap Quality problems that have to be fixed even before it leaves the manufacturing parking lot? Through the roof. Then there is the crap that makes it to the customer: bit.ly/2pfnLGT

    Reply
  198. They can make all the crap that they want: It will still be crap.Bumpers that fall off because rain water collects inside and they get too heavy? Tesla crapQuality problems that have to be fixed even before it leaves the manufacturing parking lot? Through the roof.Then there is the crap that makes it to the customer:bit.ly/2pfnLGT

    Reply
  199. Battery EVs are coming along, but their Achilles heel remains. The biggest obstacle to widely accepted battery electric cars, are their batteries. While energy density has improved greatly, and price per kWh is getting there, thermal dissipation during charging increases the cost of cell production, complicates battery pack design, and limits rate of charging. Because of the difficulty of keeping them cool, the cells in the M-3 are not much larger than those in my battery powered drill. Imagine how much cheaper it would be to able to use cells 10 times larger, not just manufacturing the cells, but integrating them into the pack. The M3 battery pack has conformal tubes of flowing water in contact with each, and every cell, and of course a pump, and heat exchanger. Imagine the reduction of complexity, cost, and weight if no cooling were required, or if it could be done with air.

    Reply
  200. Battery EVs are coming along but their Achilles heel remains. The biggest obstacle to widely accepted battery electric cars are their batteries. While energy density has improved greatly and price per kWh is getting there thermal dissipation during charging increases the cost of cell production complicates battery pack design and limits rate of charging.Because of the difficulty of keeping them cool the cells in the M-3 are not much larger than those in my battery powered drill. Imagine how much cheaper it would be to able to use cells 10 times larger not just manufacturing the cells but integrating them into the pack. The M3 battery pack has conformal tubes of flowing water in contact with each and every cell and of course a pump and heat exchanger. Imagine the reduction of complexity cost and weight if no cooling were required or if it could be done with air.

    Reply
  201. It simply is not possible to complete 6,000 cars per week and have 80% of the cars have to be repaired before they are complete. Whatever problems there might have been can’t be very common now.

    The other car makers evolved their cars solving problems as they emerged and learning from the past mistakes. Tesla has had to start with a modern fully featured car from scratch. They have had their learning too, as this is the 4th model, but nothing like what the other makers have under their belt.

    I think Tesla standards are very high generally. Quality is just going to get better and better. I don’t think the other electric cars out there are remotely close.

    I also suspect those 14% and 10% numbers are for very mature production lines. Most models are produced 5-7 years before there a big changes. Most changes are just cosmetic, or they have a new engine/transmission option or other random options that are basically interchangeable.

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  202. A) Canadians have been getting them already, and it’s like a whole ‘nother country. B) WarrenTheApe is already sure it’s all imaginary and not happening.

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  203. A) Canadians have been getting them already and it’s like a whole ‘nother country.B) WarrenTheApe is already sure it’s all imaginary and not happening.

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  204. I imagine that you can measure “battery capacity” in a few different ways, and that any press release will choose the measurement method that suits them best.

    eg. Number of cells. Number of battery packs. Number of kW.h. Kg of cells. Kg of battery packs…

    Even how do you measure kW.h? Is it the total energy supplied by the battery pack (when new? Average age?) when cycled between the recommended set points? Between the max and min allowable set points? Between the max and min that the chemistry allows? At what current? (Running at a lower power usually gives more total energy.)

    A lot of fairly prestigious companies will advertise battery packs by say multiplying the peak voltage by the total possible charge. Even though you won’t have peak voltage for much of that charge. Or they assume you are running one small LED on the system so it can discharge at the lowest rate. Assuming perfect temperature. etc. etc.

    Just saying that you can’t take one companies numbers and compare them to another’s.

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  205. As for loans its true tesla borrowed quite a lot to ramp up for the model 3. Tesla lost over 700 million last quarter they still hold 2.2Billion in cash and 10 Billion in long term debt. Musk expects to turn a profit in the second half of 2018. Assumimg that happens short sellers will have a very bad day.

    Reply
  206. The high failure rate article was published in nov of 17. If memory serves that was the early production shake out period and the production rate was awful.
    With the plant now outrunning distribution its exceptionally unlikely they still have that failure rate. I dont see how they could possibly do that much rework.
    As for bumpers falling off we have two examples both of which have seen substantial interest from the company. Good luck getting a call from the ceo of toyota if you happen to have a problem in the first week.

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  207. Cells in the Model 3 are a new size and tweaked chemistry developed jointly by Panasonic and Tesla. 21 by 70 mm, and called simply 2170 cells. They have about twice the capacity of 18650 cells.

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  208. Idiot, there are no overdue loans, and nothing is stalling. They are making cars at a pace that nets them at least $800mn/yr and as much as $1bn5/yr depending on margin.

    Lorem Ipsum to evade the damned comment system follows, per te adipisci patrioque contentiones. Vis et quis vitae, ne has prodesset appellantur. Ei vim dolorum laboramus, nullam postea iisque has ad. Ex vis justo feugait.

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  209. No Moron, if that were true, you could quote support for what you claim and the facts on balance would be bad.

    You only pay attention to bad news for Tesla or Musk, and act the same whether it is sourced or not.

    For that matter, you keep on repeating BS even if it is directly contradicted by the supposed source, for example, there is no and never was any US Air Force investigation of Musk…but you keep lying and saying there is.

    You are only a $tupid troll and crank.

    Reply
  210. “With WarrenTheTroll it isn’t even ideology, it’s blind unreasoning, ravening hate.”

    Nope. It is just me exposing the whacko cult that Musk Fluffers are.

    Michael’s right. Tesla’s stock price isn’t driven by fundamentals. It’s driven by bullsh!t.

    Reply
  211. ” Unfortunately, much of the discussion surrounding Tesla has been driven by ideological factors far more than reality. ” <-- With WarrenTheTroll it isn't even ideology, it's blind unreasoning, ravening hate. " since the stock no longer seemed to be driven by fundamentals " <-- The fundamentals are that for every 1% batteries improve, IC cars have to improve 4% just to stay even, and they can't do it. Tesla is at the forefront of those battery EV improvements in every respect. They could not most wisely make a profit overall to distribute for even the next decade, because they can absorb all the money that has been thrown at them five fold while also sinking every bit of the probably $2bn they make next year on the Model 3 into expansion over that time. Distributing any dividends prior to that is an at best needful sop to to the weak minded. What fundamental did you see that had changed?

    Reply
  212. Warren, that article is from March. Forbes had an update last week:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2018/09/02/tesla-model-3-owner-review-quality-issues-consumer-reports-customer-satisfaction/

    It sounds like while the quality isn’t perfect, the customers who have received their cars are positive. Unfortunately, much of the discussion surrounding Tesla has been driven by ideological factors far more than reality.

    Full Disclaimer – I don’t currently have an investment stake in Tesla, but have had positions in it in the past. I decided to close out my holdings during the take private fiasco, since the stock no longer seemed to be driven by fundamentals. It does seem to be recovering now, but I am wary.

    Reply
  213. Tesla is a Battery producer where the other car manufacturers are ICE producers.
    Near everything around the ICE is very standardized. Like everything built around Tesla’s batteries.
    ICE manufacturers have the problem of converting their expertise from producing ICE to producing batteries and then engineering around these batteries.

    Not easy if you are a late comer and someone have already sorted many things out earlier.

    Tesla is obtaining a technological advantage over traditional carmakers they will have a lot of problem overcome. The same it is happening with SpaceX.

    Reply
  214. Look everyone! Look at how the Kool-Aid drinking Musk Fluffers react when cold hard facts are brought up that they don’t like!

    Joe — the ones AT THE SALES CENTER have already been through the rebuild process. The 80% rebuild rate are the cars that are made and then fail inspection BEFORE they ever leave the factory.

    But hey…you need to spazz when the harsh truth is exposed and that means complete loss of your critical thinking skills happens.

    Try to calm down and look at things logically.

    (Chances are, this is just another fake Luca account kiddies)

    Reply
  215. I have no reason to think they’d refuse to print one guy’s bad experience, or even a trend if it were a trend. No matter how you burn in electronics, some will fail shortly after going in to use.

    It’s WarrenTheTroll claiming 90% of them are defective, or some such nonsense.

    Reply
  216. How about you visit your local Tesla Sales Center and have a look at the Model 3’s on their lot and see how many defects you can spot? Until you have a look for yourself and have a test drive for yourself, you are not qualified to piss on Tesla or the Model 3. Grow up!!!

    Reply
  217. “cells in the M-3 are not much larger than those in my battery powered drill”
    Actually they are probably exactly the same. 18650s are the same size in most things, from drills to bike headlights to EVs.

    18650 is the battery size: 18 mm in diameter, 65 mm long. There are a whole bunch of different 18650 batteries, with different internal structures and different chemistry. But they all match the same size. It’s like a AA or D cell battery, the name just gives the size.

    Reply
  218. “Tesla now produces more battery capacity than all other car manufacturers combined, including China, with a run rate of approximately 20 gigawatt-hours.” Hello overhyped Chinese battery plants and companies.

    Reply
  219. Literally incredible–credible only to the deeply stupid, such as yourself and WarrenTheTroll.
    Molestie at elementum eu facilisis sed. Interdum velit laoreet id donec ultrices tincidunt arcu non. Pulvinar proin gravida hendrerit lectus a. Risus in hendrerit gravida rutrum quisque non. Suscipit adipiscing bibendum est ultricies integer quis auctor. Dictum varius duis at consectetur lorem donec. In iaculis nunc sed augue lacus viverra vitae.

    Reply
  220. Sorry, the fact I make citations which disprove you demonstrate you have no “dispute” to bring.

    You have only mindless, factless stupidity to bring as you claim what few anecdotes exist to be all but universal.

    Reply
  221. ” That doesn’t prove that they meet their production targets. ” <-- Why do you bother lying to claim anyone said they had? " Nope. I have fully stated that they will produce...crap. Like they have last year. Some months they had 90% defective units right off the production floor line. " <-- No, they never have. That is just bullshit you believe because you are a flake, a crank, and you are only here to be a troll. Elit eget gravida cum sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis. Leo urna molestie at elementum eu facilisis. Metus dictum at tempor commodo ullamcorper a lacus vestibulum sed. Metus dictum at tempor commodo ullamcorper a lacus.

    Reply
  222. No, they are not endemic.

    ” 90% defective right when it comes off the production line! ” <-- Yes, you are full of shit. Even though these so-called whistleblowers are not even in a part of the factory where they could know what they claim to and their stories are only pushed by shorter desperate to cause the company to fail--if it's bad about Tesla you'll believe it. It's an example of you falling on the "crank" side of "troll". Not that you'll accept reality, but that is what follows. " 98% of the respondents in Consumer Reports’ Annual Auto Survey stated that they would definitely buy the car again. Tesla Model S is way ahead of all other plug-in cars, hybrids and conventional cars by over 10%. " <-- From the latest Consumer Reports, 2015 And then... " According to the survey, customer satisfaction measured by how many respondents said they would consider buying or leasing another Tesla, rose from 81% in 2013 to 92% in 2016. " <-- Prenzler Digital Media From 2017, electrek.co/2018/01/08/electrek-review-tesla-model-3/ " All in all, I am very impressed with the quality of this car, and even more impressed with its quality given the somewhat low expectations from an early production car. " <-- And that is the usual experience of a Tesla owner. And from 2018, forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2018/09/02/tesla-model-3-owner-review-quality-issues-consumer-reports-customer-satisfaction/#7491c2737a4b " Anecdotal fit and finish issues are still popping up in YouTube reviews* (which, overall, number in the hundreds) but almost invariably buyers love the car. " <-- So it appears only a few percent of owners have any complaints... You apparently exist to act as if any complaint any Tesla owner ever had, is a problem they all had and always will. Of course, you are just a lying troll. There's no more to you than that.

    Reply
  223. ” Canadians have been getting them already, and it’s like a whole ‘nother country. ”

    That doesn’t prove that they meet their production targets.

    “WarrenTheApe is already sure it’s all imaginary and not happening.”

    Nope. I have fully stated that they will produce…crap. Like they have last year. Some months they had 90% defective units right off the production floor line.

    Reply
  224. What ‘few’ problems? These are endemic.

    The vast majority of Tesla cars that roll off the assembly line in Fremont each day have flaws that need to be fixed in post-production, Reuters reports, citing nine unnamed sources.

    Some months, more than 90 percent of the cars the company makes need to be fixed, according to internal quality control reports that Reuters saw but was unable to independently verify.

    Post-production fixes are expensive and can lead to production bottlenecks. Major automakers like Toyota Motor Corp. routinely see production defects on less than 10 percent of their cars.

    90% defective right when it comes off the production line!

    hbit.ly/2jBDNIl

    Who’s lying now, Matteo?

    Reply
  225. They can make all the crap that they want: It will still be crap.

    Bumpers that fall off because rain water collects inside and they get too heavy? Tesla crap

    Quality problems that have to be fixed even before it leaves the manufacturing parking lot? Through the roof.

    Then there is the crap that makes it to the customer:

    bit.ly/2pfnLGT

    Reply
  226. Battery EVs are coming along, but their Achilles heel remains. The biggest obstacle to widely accepted battery electric cars, are their batteries. While energy density has improved greatly, and price per kWh is getting there, thermal dissipation during charging increases the cost of cell production, complicates battery pack design, and limits rate of charging.
    Because of the difficulty of keeping them cool, the cells in the M-3 are not much larger than those in my battery powered drill. Imagine how much cheaper it would be to able to use cells 10 times larger, not just manufacturing the cells, but integrating them into the pack. The M3 battery pack has conformal tubes of flowing water in contact with each, and every cell, and of course a pump, and heat exchanger. Imagine the reduction of complexity, cost, and weight if no cooling were required, or if it could be done with air.

    Reply

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