China built in hardware hacking chips

Bloomberg reports that China place small chips into servers and other machines that allowed the attackers to create a stealth doorway into any network that included the altered machines. Multiple people familiar with the matter say investigators found that the chips had been inserted at factories run by manufacturing subcontractors in China.

This attack was something graver than the software-based incidents the world has grown accustomed to seeing. Hardware hacks are more difficult to pull off and potentially more devastating, promising the kind of long-term, stealth access that spy agencies are willing to invest millions of dollars and many years to get.

China makes 75 percent of the world’s mobile phones and 90 percent of its PCs. A hardware seeding attack would mean developing a deep understanding of a product’s design, manipulating components at the factory, and ensuring that the doctored devices made it through the global logistics chain to the desired location—a feat akin to throwing a stick in the Yangtze River upstream from Shanghai and ensuring that it washes ashore in Seattle.

Investigators found that it eventually affected almost 30 companies, including a major bank, government contractors, and the world’s most valuable company, Apple Inc. Apple was an important Supermicro customer and had planned to order more than 30,000 of its servers in two years for a new global network of data centers.

China’s goal was long-term access to high-value corporate secrets and sensitive government networks. No consumer data is known to have been stolen.

171 thoughts on “China built in hardware hacking chips”

  1. You do have some points, but you need to remember the law of big numbers. It’s easier to grow 63% when you start with people collecting yak dung for cooking fires. The UN situation is complicated, and you can read it different ways, depending on what decade you focus on. Too much to get into right now.

    Reply
  2. You do have some points but you need to remember the law of big numbers. It’s easier to grow 63{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} when you start with people collecting yak dung for cooking fires. The UN situation is complicated and you can read it different ways depending on what decade you focus on. Too much to get into right now.

    Reply
  3. After WWII China was in self-isolation mode. It wasn’t until Nixon went there 50 years ago that the market opened up”?? Seriously, dude. The US embargoed the export of all technologies, finance and grains to China in 1949 and blocked its admission to the UN until Nixon lifted the restrictions. During those 25 years (all under Mao). from 1957 to 1975, China’s national income increased by 63 percent on a per capita basis during this period of rapid population growth, more than doubling overall and the basic foundations for modern industrialism were laid and outpacing every other development takeoff in history. In Germany the rate of economic growth 1880-1914 was 33 percent per decade. In Japan from 1874-1929 the rate was 43 percent. The Soviet Union over the period 1928-58 the rate was 54 percent. In China over the years 1952-72 the decadal rate was 64 percent. Bear in mind that, save for limited Soviet aid in the 1950s, repaid in full and with interest by 1966, Mao’s industrialization proceeded without benefit of foreign loans or investments–under punitive embargoes the entire 25 years–yet Mao was unique among developing country leaders in being able to claim an economy burdened by neither foreign debt nor internal inflation. Legitimate concerns about human rights (Tianamen square, Tibet, other minority groups within China)? No, they were not legitimate at all. Why do you think they were legitimate? IP protection has consistently been a concern, with knock-off products regularly made, both in tech and in fashion industries? Really? Any proof that it’s worse than between, say, US companies?

    Reply
  4. After WWII China was in self-isolation mode. It wasn’t until Nixon went there 50 years ago that the market opened up””??Seriously”” dude. The US embargoed the export of all technologies finance and grains to China in 1949 and blocked its admission to the UN until Nixon lifted the restrictions.During those 25 years (all under Mao). from 1957 to 1975 China’s national income increased by 63 percent on a per capita basis during this period of rapid population growth more than doubling overall and the basic foundations for modern industrialism were laid and outpacing every other development takeoff in history. In Germany the rate of economic growth 1880-1914 was 33 percent per decade. In Japan from 1874-1929 the rate was 43 percent. The Soviet Union over the period 1928-58 the rate was 54 percent. In China over the years 1952-72 the decadal rate was 64 percent. Bear in mind that save for limited Soviet aid in the 1950s repaid in full and with interest by 1966 Mao’s industrialization proceeded without benefit of foreign loans or investments–under punitive embargoes the entire 25 years–yet Mao was unique among developing country leaders in being able to claim an economy burdened by neither foreign debt nor internal inflation. Legitimate concerns about human rights (Tianamen square Tibet other minority groups within China)? No they were not legitimate at all. Why do you think they were legitimate? IP protection has consistently been a concern with knock-off products regularly made both in tech and in fashion industries? Really? Any proof that it’s worse than between say”” US companies?”””””””

    Reply
  5. …70 year old ‘slur China’ campaign…” Okay, now you’ve definitely lost credibility. After WWII China was in self-isolation mode. It wasn’t until Nixon went there 50 years ago that the market opened up. In the later 80’s and especially 90’s there was a great investment in outsourcing American manufacturing to China. There was certainly no “slurring” going on in the business world, even as we overlooked legitimate concerns about human rights (Tianamen square, Tibet, other minority groups within China). IP protection has consistently been a concern, with knock-off products regularly made, both in tech and in fashion industries. That is well-known, but companies still know they can make money by using cheap Chinese labor and lower production costs due to lack of pollution controls. If it wasn’t for the U.S. initiative to pour money into China, its economy would probably be half of what it is right now. Quite possibly less. In effect, we built their modern cities. Slur campaign indeed! LOL

    Reply
  6. …70 year old ‘slur China’ campaign…””Okay”””” now you’ve definitely lost credibility. After WWII China was in self-isolation mode. It wasn’t until Nixon went there 50 years ago that the market opened up. In the later 80’s and especially 90’s there was a great investment in outsourcing American manufacturing to China. There was certainly no “”””slurring”””” going on in the business world”” even as we overlooked legitimate concerns about human rights (Tianamen square Tibet other minority groups within China). IP protection has consistently been a concern with knock-off products regularly made both in tech and in fashion industries. That is well-known but companies still know they can make money by using cheap Chinese labor and lower production costs due to lack of pollution controls.If it wasn’t for the U.S. initiative to pour money into China its economy would probably be half of what it is right now. Quite possibly less. In effect”” we built their modern cities.Slur campaign indeed! LOL”””

    Reply
  7. What makes you think this is fake news? Just because you call it fake doesn’t make it so. They quote numerous people and it comes from a reputable source. It’s not the first time we’ve heard of data being sent to Chinese servers.

    Reply
  8. What makes you think this is fake news? Just because you call it fake doesn’t make it so. They quote numerous people and it comes from a reputable source. It’s not the first time we’ve heard of data being sent to Chinese servers.

    Reply
  9. You do have some points, but you need to remember the law of big numbers. It’s easier to grow 63% when you start with people collecting yak dung for cooking fires.

    The UN situation is complicated, and you can read it different ways, depending on what decade you focus on. Too much to get into right now.

    Reply
  10. My gut feelings: the chip is made in china, but designed in USA, and ordered to install by USA govt? so Apple can deny without legal obligation?

    Reply
  11. My gut feelings: the chip is made in china but designed in USA and ordered to install by USA govt? so Apple can deny without legal obligation?

    Reply
  12. “After WWII China was in self-isolation mode. It wasn’t until Nixon went there 50 years ago that the market opened up”??

    Seriously, dude. The US embargoed the export of all technologies, finance and grains to China in 1949 and blocked its admission to the UN until Nixon lifted the restrictions.

    During those 25 years (all under Mao). from 1957 to 1975, China’s national income increased by 63 percent on a per capita basis during this period of rapid population growth, more than doubling overall and the basic foundations for modern industrialism were laid and outpacing every other development takeoff in history.

    In Germany the rate of economic growth 1880-1914 was 33 percent per decade.

    In Japan from 1874-1929 the rate was 43 percent.

    The Soviet Union over the period 1928-58 the rate was 54 percent.

    In China over the years 1952-72 the decadal rate was 64 percent.

    Bear in mind that, save for limited Soviet aid in the 1950s, repaid in full and with interest by 1966, Mao’s industrialization proceeded without benefit of foreign loans or investments–under punitive embargoes the entire 25 years–yet Mao was unique among developing country leaders in being able to claim an economy burdened by neither foreign debt nor internal inflation.
    Legitimate concerns about human rights (Tianamen square, Tibet, other minority groups within China)? No, they were not legitimate at all. Why do you think they were legitimate?

    IP protection has consistently been a concern, with knock-off products regularly made, both in tech and in fashion industries? Really? Any proof that it’s worse than between, say, US companies?

    Reply
  13. “…70 year old ‘slur China’ campaign…”

    Okay, now you’ve definitely lost credibility. After WWII China was in self-isolation mode. It wasn’t until Nixon went there 50 years ago that the market opened up. In the later 80’s and especially 90’s there was a great investment in outsourcing American manufacturing to China. There was certainly no “slurring” going on in the business world, even as we overlooked legitimate concerns about human rights (Tianamen square, Tibet, other minority groups within China). IP protection has consistently been a concern, with knock-off products regularly made, both in tech and in fashion industries. That is well-known, but companies still know they can make money by using cheap Chinese labor and lower production costs due to lack of pollution controls.

    If it wasn’t for the U.S. initiative to pour money into China, its economy would probably be half of what it is right now. Quite possibly less. In effect, we built their modern cities.

    Slur campaign indeed! LOL

    Reply
  14. Why this FAKE NEWS surface at this time when USA is in full scale Trade War against China. My take is that USA not only impose a Trade War on China and to destroy Chinese economic once for all, but also trying to destroy all Chinese Tech Firms once and for all.

    Reply
  15. Why this FAKE NEWS surface at this time when USA is in full scale Trade War against China. My take is that USA not only impose a Trade War on China and to destroy Chinese economic once for all but also trying to destroy all Chinese Tech Firms once and for all.

    Reply
  16. What makes you think this is fake news? Just because you call it fake doesn’t make it so. They quote numerous people and it comes from a reputable source. It’s not the first time we’ve heard of data being sent to Chinese servers.

    Reply
  17. Why this FAKE NEWS surface at this time when USA is in full scale Trade War against China.

    My take is that USA not only impose a Trade War on China and to destroy Chinese economic once for all, but also trying to destroy all Chinese Tech Firms once and for all.

    Reply
  18. It is funny that the U.S. government have so far not called for an investigation into this matter. You would think, Donald Trump, looking for anything to stick it to the Chinese, would not miss this opportunity if there were something to the allegations.

    Reply
  19. It is funny that the U.S. government have so far not called for an investigation into this matter. You would think Donald Trump looking for anything to stick it to the Chinese would not miss this opportunity if there were something to the allegations.

    Reply
  20. Now that the official Chinese wu mau to NBF had declared it bogus, we can all stop worrying then! And they have motive. Lots of it. “No evidence.” this is America, Godfree. Where one can make accusations w/o a shred of evidence. Pay attention.

    Reply
  21. Now that the official Chinese wu mau to NBF had declared it bogus we can all stop worrying then!And they have motive. Lots of it.No evidence.””this is America”””” Godfree. Where one can make accusations w/o a shred of evidence. Pay attention.”””

    Reply
  22. No they didn’t Why are you lying? They specifically said that they searched all their servers after receiving the story in advance from Bloomberg and found nothing Exact quote “Apple has never found malicious chips in our servers,” Apple said. “Finally, in response to questions we have received from other news organizations since Businessweek published its story, we are not under any kind of gag order or other confidentiality obligations.” So yes both companies have stated that they searched all servers and found no malicious chips If this story is true then it does indeed allow stockholder lawsuits

    Reply
  23. No they didn’tWhy are you lying? They specifically said that they searched all their servers after receiving the story in advance from Bloomberg and found nothing Exact quoteApple has never found malicious chips in our servers””” Apple said. “”””Finally”” in response to questions we have received from other news organizations since Businessweek published its story”” we are not under any kind of gag order or other confidentiality obligations.””””So yes both companies have stated that they searched all servers and found no malicious chips If this story is true then it does indeed allow stockholder lawsuits”””

    Reply
  24. If this story was true, 30 major companies, thousands of servers each would require a small army. Yet none of these grunts are coming out in public to support the Bloomberg article Occam’s razor says that the story is bull, planted in Bloomberg by stock traders

    Reply
  25. If this story was true 30 major companies thousands of servers each would require a small army.Yet none of these grunts are coming out in public to support the Bloomberg article Occam’s razor says that the story is bull planted in Bloomberg by stock traders

    Reply
  26. There are no liability issues, however lying to public shareholders is a crime A company is only liable if they are fully aware that they are putting poison in their food and continued to sell food despite knowing poison was in it, or if they did not run the tests they were supposed as mandated by the FDC because of poison. Likewise Apple is only liable if they found evidence of hardware implants and did nothing to remove them. If they already got rid of them then they did their duty to their customers and shareholders. Lying about not being compromised on the other hand, if evidence does come out that this story is real, Apple will be facing SEC’s fines and some executives are going to get fired.

    Reply
  27. There are no liability issues however lying to public shareholders is a crime A company is only liable if they are fully aware that they are putting poison in their food and continued to sell food despite knowing poison was in it or if they did not run the tests they were supposed as mandated by the FDC because of poison. Likewise Apple is only liable if they found evidence of hardware implants and did nothing to remove them. If they already got rid of them then they did their duty to their customers and shareholders. Lying about not being compromised on the other hand if evidence does come out that this story is real Apple will be facing SEC’s fines and some executives are going to get fired.

    Reply
  28. Except the article claims that this discovery happened 2 years ago, yet to this day Apple and Amazon are STILL using Chinese produced servers Inventec, inspura, quanta to name a few

    Reply
  29. Except the article claims that this discovery happened 2 years ago yet to this day Apple and Amazon are STILL using Chinese produced servers Inventec inspura quanta to name a few

    Reply
  30. Not going to happen, like I stated in my old post regarding the quality of the US workforce vs China’s The US simply does not have highly intelligent workers willing to work for pennies PCB assembly is extremely delicate and technical work, It is high level technician work PCB construction could come back because its all done by machines in fact it uses photolithography the exact same method for processors. With lithography machines and a bunch of chemicals forming the tunnels that are filled with copper to connect the pins from one component to another. All machines no humans. But PCB assembly requires controlling pick and place machines, extensive testing, prototyping requires soldering using microscopes. Failed PCB’s need to be manually reworked. Even at $15 an hour in the US, hiring managers struggle to hire employees that aren’t frequently late who come into work drunk and high.

    Reply
  31. Not going to happen like I stated in my old post regarding the quality of the US workforce vs China’sThe US simply does not have highly intelligent workers willing to work for pennies PCB assembly is extremely delicate and technical work It is high level technician workPCB construction could come back because its all done by machines in fact it uses photolithography the exact same method for processors. With lithography machines and a bunch of chemicals forming the tunnels that are filled with copper to connect the pins from one component to another. All machines no humans. But PCB assembly requires controlling pick and place machines extensive testing prototyping requires soldering using microscopes. Failed PCB’s need to be manually reworked. Even at $15 an hour in the US hiring managers struggle to hire employees that aren’t frequently late who come into work drunk and high.

    Reply
  32. What lies? Apple said their servers weren’t impacted. They disputed the number of servers Bloomberg said were dedicated to one thing or another. Didn’t say a word about their phones, which I take to be an admission that their phones are all affected. Amazon was very clear that at some specific times, some specific entities no longer had issues. But only specific entities at specific times. So we could guess that some things were affected at other times.

    Reply
  33. What lies? Apple said their servers weren’t impacted. They disputed the number of servers Bloomberg said were dedicated to one thing or another. Didn’t say a word about their phones which I take to be an admission that their phones are all affected.Amazon was very clear that at some specific times some specific entities no longer had issues. But only specific entities at specific times. So we could guess that some things were affected at other times.

    Reply
  34. Great claims require great evidence So where is the evidence? So far it is only anonymous sources, completely devoid of any technical information. I’m no computer security expert, but anyone knows that motherboards are extremely complicated and there are millions of different motherboards because every electronic component requires very sensitive frequencies and voltages to function properly No white paper or security researcher has demonstrated such an implant in public Every party has publically denied it, by law publically traded companies cannot lie to public share holders and shareholders are allowed to sue. If they had a NSA/CIA gag order they would simply refuse to make public statements a gag order cannot force you to lie nor does it allow you to violate laws by lying 30 major companies, with hundreds to thousands of servers each which means a lot of grunts know about this. We live in the age of the internet these grunts could spill the truth anonymously over the internet. Yes executives can keep tight lips, but its thousands of grunts who are inspecting motherboards for implants, throwing out thousands of motherboards etc…

    Reply
  35. Great claims require great evidence So where is the evidence? So far it is only anonymous sources completely devoid of any technical information. I’m no computer security expert but anyone knows that motherboards are extremely complicated and there are millions of different motherboards because every electronic component requires very sensitive frequencies and voltages to function properly No white paper or security researcher has demonstrated such an implant in publicEvery party has publically denied it by law publically traded companies cannot lie to public share holders and shareholders are allowed to sue. If they had a NSA/CIA gag order they would simply refuse to make public statements a gag order cannot force you to lie nor does it allow you to violate laws by lying 30 major companies with hundreds to thousands of servers each which means a lot of grunts know about this. We live in the age of the internet these grunts could spill the truth anonymously over the internet. Yes executives can keep tight lips but its thousands of grunts who are inspecting motherboards for implants throwing out thousands of motherboards etc…

    Reply
  36. No there’s not Lying allows shareholders to sue, a publically listed company cannot lie to the public. Nor can the CIA/NSA force companies to lie, they can put gag orders which prevents them from saying anything If the CIA puts a gag order, and you publically deny it still puts you up for lawsuits. Hence why companies with a gag order simply refuses to make public statements And delisting is meaningless, Nasdaq delists around 400 companies a year In addition Amazon and Apple are STILL both using servers made by Chinese and Taiwanese companies

    Reply
  37. No there’s notLying allows shareholders to sue a publically listed company cannot lie to the public. Nor can the CIA/NSA force companies to lie they can put gag orders which prevents them from saying anythingIf the CIA puts a gag order and you publically deny it still puts you up for lawsuits. Hence why companies with a gag order simply refuses to make public statements And delisting is meaningless Nasdaq delists around 400 companies a yearIn addition Amazon and Apple are STILL both using servers made by Chinese and Taiwanese companies

    Reply
  38. I can’t understand why the Chinese would go to such trouble implanting dots onto a server board when they already have such greating spying hardware already buult-in that nobody knows about…

    Reply
  39. I can’t understand why the Chinese would go to such trouble implanting dots onto a server board when they already have such greating spying hardware already buult-in that nobody knows about…

    Reply
  40. Anybody else notice the hidden “network based KVM” now built into every INTEL vPRO chipset? and oh by the way…it works entirely outside the operating system from a second CPU that’s always on… Supposely its for remote admin of your office PC.. of course, its a good “dual” use technology. remotely power on and reboot any CPU on the network? hmmm…. remotely send key strokes and watch monitor remotely without user intervention…

    Reply
  41. Anybody else notice the hidden etwork based KVM”” now built into every INTEL vPRO chipset? and oh by the way…it works entirely outside the operating system from a second CPU that’s always on… Supposely its for remote admin of your office PC.. of course”””” its a good “”””dual”””” use technology. remotely power on and reboot any CPU on the network? hmmm…. remotely send key strokes and watch monitor remotely without user intervention…”””

    Reply
  42. Those are not even the worse “hardware trojans”. consider, contraband computer monitors with the hidden “wifi direct” interface built into LCD graphics chip. If you want to spy on what people are doing in a department. you just upgrade their computer monitors that can be secretly turned on like multichannel DVR security system. Or how about the USB thumb drive with the passive RF backdoor… even if you USB thumb drive is not plugged in… they can still scan every usb drive in a given area by sending out RFID signals to power the trojan circuit to readout the cache of the last thing you saved to the USB thumb drive and report it back to the secret basestation hidden in a place like a super market or department store. and the worse of the worse… the implantable “RF microdots” … you don’t need an ear piece to listen to your cellphone or mp3 player… or even a large hearing aid to hear… al you need is an “RF microdot” injected into the inner ear on both sides of your head… except its never used for anything useful like that… its used to screw around with people in stereo sound… a simple 10 minute procedure… drug victim… inject “RF microdots” … and install RF basestation near by… its as easy as that

    Reply
  43. Those are not even the worse hardware trojans””. consider”””” contraband computer monitors with the hidden “”””wifi direct”””” interface built into LCD graphics chip. If you want to spy on what people are doing in a department. you just upgrade their computer monitors that can be secretly turned on like multichannel DVR security system. Or how about the USB thumb drive with the passive RF backdoor… even if you USB thumb drive is not plugged in… they can still scan every usb drive in a given area by sending out RFID signals to power the trojan circuit to readout the cache of the last thing you saved to the USB thumb drive and report it back to the secret basestation hidden in a place like a super market or department store. and the worse of the worse… the implantable “”””RF microdots”””” … you don’t need an ear piece to listen to your cellphone or mp3 player… or even a large hearing aid to hear… al you need is an “”””RF microdot”””” injected into the inner ear on both sides of your head… except its never used for anything useful like that… its used to screw around with people in stereo sound… a simple 10 minute procedure… drug victim… inject “”””RF microdots”””” … and install RF basestation near by… its as easy as that”””””””

    Reply
  44. We expect nation states to spy on other nation states, that’s fairly normal and in bounds. For nation states to hack private companies to steal for the benefit of state owned industries and causing financial harm to privately owned companies goes too far. While the players have denied it, I bet nobody sues Bloomberg, which tells me it’s true. It is apparently long overdue to not produce 90% of our computer equipment in China and time to build them in other countries with low labor costs instead. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

    Reply
  45. We expect nation states to spy on other nation states that’s fairly normal and in bounds. For nation states to hack private companies to steal for the benefit of state owned industries and causing financial harm to privately owned companies goes too far. While the players have denied it I bet nobody sues Bloomberg which tells me it’s true. It is apparently long overdue to not produce 90{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of our computer equipment in China and time to build them in other countries with low labor costs instead. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

    Reply
  46. It is funny that the U.S. government have so far not called for an investigation into this matter. You would think, Donald Trump, looking for anything to stick it to the Chinese, would not miss this opportunity if there were something to the allegations.

    Reply
  47. Folks, companies like Amazon, Apple etc have NDA’s with Uncle Sam preventing them from acknowledging hacks like this. It isn’t like this hack was discovered yesterday. What does this hack actually do? Maybe Goat has an idea. I understand it is a microscopic spi flash that enables the hacker to access the baseboard management controller and the dataflow. Theregister dot com has an excellent technical discussion on this. The hack appears to be extremely well designed, built, and deployed. Though I always disregard what Godfree writes, he has a point about timing. Nothing better to advance an agenda to insource critical manufacturing back to the US. It’s definitely a tech war going on. Unlike what Godfree (who surely will comment) believes, China will lose this war. Simply put, the US doesn’t need to source from China, but it takes a bit of time to rearrange the supply chain. btw, backdoors is not only a Chinese domain expertise. Does anyone really think insourcing production to the US won’t prevent alphabet agencies from doing the same, or similar thing? It’s better to control your own ability to do intel, than let someone else do it. Soon, all US Iphones will be built in the US with TSMC chips sourced in the US, for instance. The Chinese can always try to insert themselves in US production, but they can stand in line with everyone else who wants to give it a go.

    Reply
  48. Folks companies like Amazon Apple etc have NDA’s with Uncle Sam preventing them from acknowledging hacks like this. It isn’t like this hack was discovered yesterday. What does this hack actually do? Maybe Goat has an idea. I understand it is a microscopic spi flash that enables the hacker to access the baseboard management controller and the dataflow. Theregister dot com has an excellent technical discussion on this. The hack appears to be extremely well designed built and deployed. Though I always disregard what Godfree writes he has a point about timing. Nothing better to advance an agenda to insource critical manufacturing back to the US. It’s definitely a tech war going on. Unlike what Godfree (who surely will comment) believes China will lose this war. Simply put the US doesn’t need to source from China but it takes a bit of time to rearrange the supply chain. btw backdoors is not only a Chinese domain expertise. Does anyone really think insourcing production to the US won’t prevent alphabet agencies from doing the same or similar thing? It’s better to control your own ability to do intel than let someone else do it. Soon all US Iphones will be built in the US with TSMC chips sourced in the US for instance. The Chinese can always try to insert themselves in US production but they can stand in line with everyone else who wants to give it a go.

    Reply
  49. For national security purposes we should immediately embargo and destroy any and all products coming from China. They are not our friendly trading partners after all.

    Reply
  50. For national security purposes we should immediately embargo and destroy any and all products coming from China. They are not our friendly trading partners after all.

    Reply
  51. Kindly provide us with a link to proof that China–or anybody–burgled CAP1400 documentation. You read such nonsense everywhere, but not in court records. Why? Because China leads the world in science and technology. Flat out. According to the Japan Science and Technology Agency, China now ranks as the most influential country in four of eight core scientific fields, tying with the U.S. The agency took the top 10% of the most referenced studies in each field, and determined the number of authors who were affiliated with the U.S., the U.K., Germany, France, China or Japan. China ranked first in computer science, mathematics, materials science and engineering. The U.S., on the other hand, led the way in physics, environmental and earth sciences, basic life science and clinical medicine. China is also rapidly catching up in physics, where the U.S. has long dominated. It is spending more than $6 billion to build the world’s largest particle accelerator, which could put it at the forefront of particle physics. https://tinyurl.com/ydeqeqnb. Chinese technology and deployment leads the world all fields of civil engineering, all fields of sustainable and renewable energy, manufacturing, supercomputing, speech recognition, graphenics, thorium power, pebble bed reactors, genomics, thermal power generation, quantum communication networks, ASW missiles, in-orbit satellite refueling, passive array radar, metamaterials, hyperspectral imaging, nanotechnology, UHV electricity transmission, HSR, radiotelescopy, hypersonic weapons, satellite quantum communications and quantum secure direct communications.. “Approximately 72% of the academic patent families published in QIT since 2012 have been from Chinese universities. US universities are a distant second with 12%.” (Patintformatics. https://patinformatics.com/quantum-computing-report/).

    Reply
  52. Kindly provide us with a link to proof that China–or anybody–burgled CAP1400 documentation.You read such nonsense everywhere but not in court records.Why? Because China leads the world in science and technology. Flat out. According to the Japan Science and Technology Agency China now ranks as the most influential country in four of eight core scientific fields tying with the U.S. The agency took the top 10{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of the most referenced studies in each field and determined the number of authors who were affiliated with the U.S. the U.K. Germany France China or Japan. China ranked first in computer science mathematics materials science and engineering. The U.S. on the other hand led the way in physics environmental and earth sciences basic life science and clinical medicine. China is also rapidly catching up in physics where the U.S. has long dominated. It is spending more than $6 billion to build the world’s largest particle accelerator which could put it at the forefront of particle physics. https://tinyurl.com/ydeqeqnb.Chinese technology and deployment leads the world all fields of civil engineering all fields of sustainable and renewable energy manufacturing supercomputing speech recognition graphenics thorium power pebble bed reactors genomics thermal power generation quantum communication networks ASW missiles in-orbit satellite refueling passive array radar metamaterials hyperspectral imaging nanotechnology UHV electricity transmission HSR radiotelescopy hypersonic weapons satellite quantum communications and quantum secure direct communications.. “Approximately 72{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of the academic patent families published in QIT since 2012 have been from Chinese universities. US universities are a distant second with 12{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}.” (Patintformatics. https://patinformatics.com/quantum-

    Reply
  53. China licenced the AP1000 nuclear reactor off Westinghouse, with an agreement to develop its own larger version, the CAP1400 – but they still went in and burgled all the documentation, just in case. I’ve also read of an American wind turbine technician finding the latest, embargoed tech from his company while inspecting up inside turbines in China. Nothing new – it’s how everyone has always made progress, from Marco Polo’s time, through Germany and the US stealing British industrial advances, to today. Much of current American technology is being developed by immigrants, who are outperforming natives at the STEM subjects. The patent system is more designed for kicking away the ladder than rewarding genuine innovation.

    Reply
  54. China licenced the AP1000 nuclear reactor off Westinghouse with an agreement to develop its own larger version the CAP1400 – but they still went in and burgled all the documentation just in case. I’ve also read of an American wind turbine technician finding the latest embargoed tech from his company while inspecting up inside turbines in China. Nothing new – it’s how everyone has always made progress from Marco Polo’s time through Germany and the US stealing British industrial advances to today. Much of current American technology is being developed by immigrants who are outperforming natives at the STEM subjects. The patent system is more designed for kicking away the ladder than rewarding genuine innovation.

    Reply
  55. Now that the official Chinese wu mau to NBF had declared it bogus, we can all stop worrying then!

    And they have motive. Lots of it.

    “No evidence.”

    this is America, Godfree. Where one can make accusations w/o a shred of evidence. Pay attention.

    Reply
  56. What secrets, IP or other knowhow does the US possess that China cannot invent or license that it currently does not possess? And what would the alleged act–which will be forgotten as soon as the NATO meeting breaks up–do to further China’s acquisition of that desirable IP? And how might this current addition to our 70-year-old ‘slur China’ campaign serve to distract people from the fact that somewhere between 2020-2025 every Chinese will have a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health and old age care (the PRC is shooting for mid-2021). On that day there will be more homeless, poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China. And to drive the point home, by then 450,000,000 urban Chinese will have more net worth and disposable income than the average American, their mothers and infants will be less likely to die in childbirth, their children will graduate from high school three years ahead of–and outlive–American kids.

    Reply
  57. What secrets IP or other knowhow does the US possess that China cannot invent or license that it currently does not possess?And what would the alleged act–which will be forgotten as soon as the NATO meeting breaks up–do to further China’s acquisition of that desirable IP?And how might this current addition to our 70-year-old ‘slur China’ campaign serve to distract people from the fact that somewhere between 2020-2025 every Chinese will have a home a job plenty of food education safe streets health and old age care (the PRC is shooting for mid-2021).On that day there will be more homeless poor hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China.And to drive the point home by then 450000000 urban Chinese will have more net worth and disposable income than the average American their mothers and infants will be less likely to die in childbirth their children will graduate from high school three years ahead of–and outlive–American kids.”

    Reply
  58. PS: this was MY business — with half a hundred employees — for nearly 20 years. I’m just saying, it ain’t “nuthin'” … GoatGuy

    Reply
  59. PS: this was MY business — with half a hundred employees — for nearly 20 years. I’m just saying it ain’t uthin'”” … GoatGuy”””””””

    Reply
  60. I know “Godfree Daniels” that you are a pro-Sino-dude. Every comment you make is always, infallibly, “go China go.” However, there is DEFINITELY a motive. Tapping into password files, to surreptitiously aid in clandestine forensics. Forensics thousands of miles away, done in the middle of the night, on weekends. Clandestine forensics to “learn stuff” to help the domestic Chinese effort… To replicate EVERYTHING CRITICAL for competing with American monopolies. There is a trillion dollar motive. How much would you do — if you were the politburo … to increase your country’s GDP by a Trillion dollars. Or three. Oh, imbedding a teeny-tiny-barely-visible chip seems obvious. Its cheap. A few million research, then just stick it in. And there it’ll sit… the electronic spy. Waiting for instructions as to what to spy upon. Later. Sometime later. Take your sinocentric apologist rhetoric away. It isn’t worth two dead flies. GoatGuy

    Reply
  61. I know “Godfree Daniels” that you are a pro-Sino-dude. Every comment you make is always infallibly go China go.””However”” there is DEFINITELY a motive. Tapping into password files to surreptitiously aid in clandestine forensics. Forensics thousands of miles away done in the middle of the night”” on weekends.Clandestine forensics to “”””learn stuff”””” to help the domestic Chinese effort…To replicate EVERYTHING CRITICAL for competing with American monopolies.There is a trillion dollar motive.How much would you do — if you were the politburo … to increase your country’s GDPby a Trillion dollars. Or three.Oh”” imbedding a teeny-tiny-barely-visible chip seems obvious.Its cheap. A few million research”” then just stick it in. And there it’ll sit… the electronic spy.Waiting for instructions as to what to spy upon.Later.Sometime later.Take your sinocentric apologist rhetoric away.It isn’t worth two dead flies.GoatGuy”””””””

    Reply
  62. Sure.. for 100,000 motherboards. You’ve got to take the server down, cleanly. And shuttle its workload to another server. Then unmount it from the rack. Bundle up all cables. Cart it off to the desolder facility. Unplug everything competently. Unplug the power supply competently. Blow out the dust (outside), since it’ll interfere with operating following… Desolder the chip. Solder IN the replacement chip… because the problem child ain’t “just a watcher”. Test the Mobo. Reattach it to the chassis. Plug all the cards and hard disks and so on back in. Then the power supply and ducting, and back/front cables. Power it up from USB, to custom-load a new O/S for certification. Certify. Patch the O/S that’ll be nominal runtime. Patch the apps that’ll depend on the patched O/S. Reboot natively. Certify that its working right, nominal, without problems. Package up the unit for re-installation in racks. Reinstall. Hook into network fabric, power fabric, cooling ducting fabric. Certify that it is capable of handling former load. Schedule to bring online. Bring online. Extra-closely observer that it is working appropriately for 5 days. That’s nothing, right? Nothing at all. 1 0 0 , 0 0 0 times, for all the dâhmned servers affected. Oh sure. Its nothing at all. GoatGuy

    Reply
  63. Sure.. for 100000 motherboards. You’ve got to take the server down cleanly. And shuttle its workload to another server. Then unmount it from the rack.Bundle up all cables.Cart it off to the desolder facility.Unplug everything competently. Unplug the power supply competently. Blow out the dust (outside) since it’ll interfere with operating following…Desolder the chip.Solder IN the replacement chip… because the problem child ain’t just a watcher””.Test the Mobo.Reattach it to the chassis.Plug all the cards and hard disks and so on back in.Then the power supply and ducting”” and back/front cables.Power it up from USB to custom-load a new O/S for certification.Certify.Patch the O/S that’ll be nominal runtime. Patch the apps that’ll depend on the patched O/S. Reboot natively.Certify that its working right nominal without problems.Package up the unit for re-installation in racks. Reinstall. Hook into network fabric power fabric cooling ducting fabric.Certify that it is capable of handling former load.Schedule to bring online.Bring online.Extra-closely observer that it is working appropriately for 5 days.That’s nothing right?Nothing at all. 1 0 0 0 0 0 times”” for all the dâhmned servers affected. Oh sure.Its nothing at all. GoatGuy”””””””

    Reply
  64. That’s nice and all, but can they even put a dent in US demand? Or should the US economy just wait a few years for new computer hardware?

    Reply
  65. That’s nice and all but can they even put a dent in US demand? Or should the US economy just wait a few years for new computer hardware?

    Reply
  66. Nah… American PCB (printed circuit board) makers are chomping at the bit to win back some honest competitive business, here. No need to ship the stuff to China, Taiwan or Japan. Just saying. GoatGuy

    Reply
  67. Nah… American PCB (printed circuit board) makers are chomping at the bit to win back some honest competitive business here. No need to ship the stuff to China Taiwan or Japan. Just saying.GoatGuy”

    Reply
  68. No they didn’t

    Why are you lying?

    They specifically said that they searched all their servers after receiving the story in advance from Bloomberg and found nothing

    Exact quote

    “Apple has never found malicious chips in our servers,” Apple said. “Finally, in response to questions we have received from other news organizations since Businessweek published its story, we are not under any kind of gag order or other confidentiality obligations.”

    So yes both companies have stated that they searched all servers and found no malicious chips

    If this story is true then it does indeed allow stockholder lawsuits

    Reply
  69. If this story was true, 30 major companies, thousands of servers each would require a small army.

    Yet none of these grunts are coming out in public to support the Bloomberg article

    Occam’s razor says that the story is bull, planted in Bloomberg by stock traders

    Reply
  70. There are no liability issues, however lying to public shareholders is a crime

    A company is only liable if they are fully aware that they are putting poison in their food and continued to sell food despite knowing poison was in it, or if they did not run the tests they were supposed as mandated by the FDC because of poison.

    Likewise Apple is only liable if they found evidence of hardware implants and did nothing to remove them. If they already got rid of them then they did their duty to their customers and shareholders.

    Lying about not being compromised on the other hand, if evidence does come out that this story is real, Apple will be facing SEC’s fines and some executives are going to get fired.

    Reply
  71. Not going to happen, like I stated in my old post regarding the quality of the US workforce vs China’s

    The US simply does not have highly intelligent workers willing to work for pennies

    PCB assembly is extremely delicate and technical work, It is high level technician work

    PCB construction could come back because its all done by machines in fact it uses photolithography the exact same method for processors. With lithography machines and a bunch of chemicals forming the tunnels that are filled with copper to connect the pins from one component to another. All machines no humans.

    But PCB assembly requires controlling pick and place machines, extensive testing, prototyping requires soldering using microscopes. Failed PCB’s need to be manually reworked.

    Even at $15 an hour in the US, hiring managers struggle to hire employees that aren’t frequently late who come into work drunk and high.

    Reply
  72. What lies?

    Apple said their servers weren’t impacted. They disputed the number of servers Bloomberg said were dedicated to one thing or another. Didn’t say a word about their phones, which I take to be an admission that their phones are all affected.

    Amazon was very clear that at some specific times, some specific entities no longer had issues. But only specific entities at specific times. So we could guess that some things were affected at other times.

    Reply
  73. Readers, knowing that WMD allegations are our media’s main product, can choose their own explanations for the fact that there is no motive. No evidence. Alleged victims flatly deny it. NATO cybersecurity conference opens on Monday in Brussels.

    Reply
  74. Readers knowing that WMD allegations are our media’s main product can choose their own explanations for the fact that there is no motive. No evidence. Alleged victims flatly deny it. NATO cybersecurity conference opens on Monday in Brussels.

    Reply
  75. Great claims require great evidence

    So where is the evidence? So far it is only anonymous sources, completely devoid of any technical information.

    I’m no computer security expert, but anyone knows that motherboards are extremely complicated and there are millions of different motherboards because every electronic component requires very sensitive frequencies and voltages to function properly

    No white paper or security researcher has demonstrated such an implant in public

    Every party has publically denied it, by law publically traded companies cannot lie to public share holders and shareholders are allowed to sue. If they had a NSA/CIA gag order they would simply refuse to make public statements a gag order cannot force you to lie nor does it allow you to violate laws by lying

    30 major companies, with hundreds to thousands of servers each which means a lot of grunts know about this. We live in the age of the internet these grunts could spill the truth anonymously over the internet. Yes executives can keep tight lips, but its thousands of grunts who are inspecting motherboards for implants, throwing out thousands of motherboards etc…

    Reply
  76. No there’s not

    Lying allows shareholders to sue, a publically listed company cannot lie to the public.

    Nor can the CIA/NSA force companies to lie, they can put gag orders which prevents them from saying anything

    If the CIA puts a gag order, and you publically deny it still puts you up for lawsuits. Hence why companies with a gag order simply refuses to make public statements

    And delisting is meaningless, Nasdaq delists around 400 companies a year

    In addition Amazon and Apple are STILL both using servers made by Chinese and Taiwanese companies

    Reply
  77. There’s plenty of motive; the evidence is supposed to be with the FBI. The companies also have a motive to lie about the reality of the compromise, which can affect their bottom lines. In any case, just the fact that Supermicro has suddenly been unable to produce financial statements to the point of being delisted from Nasdaq is proof enough that there’s something afoot.

    Reply
  78. There’s plenty of motive; the evidence is supposed to be with the FBI. The companies also have a motive to lie about the reality of the compromise which can affect their bottom lines. In any case just the fact that Supermicro has suddenly been unable to produce financial statements to the point of being delisted from Nasdaq is proof enough that there’s something afoot.

    Reply
  79. I can’t understand why the Chinese would go to such trouble implanting dots onto a server board when they already have such greating spying hardware already buult-in that nobody knows about…

    Reply
  80. Anybody else notice the hidden “network based KVM” now built into every INTEL vPRO chipset? and oh by the way…it works entirely outside the operating system from a second CPU that’s always on… Supposely its for remote admin of your office PC.. of course, its a good “dual” use technology. remotely power on and reboot any CPU on the network? hmmm…. remotely send key strokes and watch monitor remotely without user intervention…

    Reply
  81. Those are not even the worse “hardware trojans”. consider, contraband computer monitors with the hidden “wifi direct” interface built into LCD graphics chip. If you want to spy on what people are doing in a department. you just upgrade their computer monitors that can be secretly turned on like multichannel DVR security system. Or how about the USB thumb drive with the passive RF backdoor… even if you USB thumb drive is not plugged in… they can still scan every usb drive in a given area by sending out RFID signals to power the trojan circuit to readout the cache of the last thing you saved to the USB thumb drive and report it back to the secret basestation hidden in a place like a super market or department store. and the worse of the worse… the implantable “RF microdots” … you don’t need an ear piece to listen to your cellphone or mp3 player… or even a large hearing aid to hear… al you need is an “RF microdot” injected into the inner ear on both sides of your head… except its never used for anything useful like that… its used to screw around with people in stereo sound… a simple 10 minute procedure… drug victim… inject “RF microdots” … and install RF basestation near by… its as easy as that

    Reply
  82. No motive. No evidence. Alleged victims flatly deny it. NATO cybersecurity conference opens on Monday in Brussels.

    Reply
  83. We expect nation states to spy on other nation states, that’s fairly normal and in bounds. For nation states to hack private companies to steal for the benefit of state owned industries and causing financial harm to privately owned companies goes too far. While the players have denied it, I bet nobody sues Bloomberg, which tells me it’s true. It is apparently long overdue to not produce 90% of our computer equipment in China and time to build them in other countries with low labor costs instead. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

    Reply
  84. …and even after that. Think of the potential liability issues they could have from admitting to being compromised this way.

    Reply
  85. …and even after that. Think of the potential liability issues they could have from admitting to being compromised this way.

    Reply
  86. Perfect excuse to ban all Chinese imports on national security grounds. …until we can ‘screen Chinese imports appropriately’, of course.

    Reply
  87. Perfect excuse to ban all Chinese imports on national security grounds….until we can ‘screen Chinese imports appropriately’ of course.

    Reply
  88. IS anyone surprised at this? 2012: “Chinese “backdoors” discovered in US military chips” “A Cambridge University research team has claimed Chinese manufacturers put “backdoors” into electronic chips used by the US military. Using “breakthrough silicon chip scanning technology”, researcher Sergei Skorobogatov said his team had found unauthorised access mechanisms inserted by the Chinese manufacturer of a chip used by the military. The chip was encrypted and locked by a key that his team was able to extract, effectively allowing it to be reprogrammed at will or disabled. Skorobogatov did not name the manufacturer but said the chip’s use was prevalent in many systems used by the military, ranging from weapons, nuclear power plants to public transport. He said the backdoor could be turned into an advanced Stuxnet-type weapon that could attack millions of systems.” Stories like this come up every few years. By now the assumption should be that any hardware or software out of China is compromised, until rigorously proven otherwise. I seriously can’t come up with any explanation short of treason why we’re still letting Chinese hardware be used in secure applications.

    Reply
  89. IS anyone surprised at this? 2012: Chinese “”backdoors”””” discovered in US military chips””””””””A Cambridge University research team has claimed Chinese manufacturers put “backdoors” into electronic chips used by the US military.Using “”””breakthrough silicon chip scanning technology”””””” researcher Sergei Skorobogatov said his team had found unauthorised access mechanisms inserted by the Chinese manufacturer of a chip used by the military.The chip was encrypted and locked by a key that his team was able to extract effectively allowing it to be reprogrammed at will or disabled.Skorobogatov did not name the manufacturer but said the chip’s use was prevalent in many systems used by the military ranging from weapons”” nuclear power plants to public transport. He said the backdoor could be turned into an advanced Stuxnet-type weapon that could attack millions of systems.””””Stories like this come up every few years. By now the assumption should be that any hardware or software out of China is compromised”””” until rigorously proven otherwise.I seriously can’t come up with any explanation short of treason why we’re still letting Chinese hardware be used in secure applications.”””””””

    Reply
  90. Folks, companies like Amazon, Apple etc have NDA’s with Uncle Sam preventing them from acknowledging hacks like this. It isn’t like this hack was discovered yesterday. What does this hack actually do? Maybe Goat has an idea. I understand it is a microscopic spi flash that enables the hacker to access the baseboard management controller and the dataflow. Theregister dot com has an excellent technical discussion on this. The hack appears to be extremely well designed, built, and deployed.

    Though I always disregard what Godfree writes, he has a point about timing. Nothing better to advance an agenda to insource critical manufacturing back to the US. It’s definitely a tech war going on. Unlike what Godfree (who surely will comment) believes, China will lose this war. Simply put, the US doesn’t need to source from China, but it takes a bit of time to rearrange the supply chain.

    btw, backdoors is not only a Chinese domain expertise. Does anyone really think insourcing production to the US won’t prevent alphabet agencies from doing the same, or similar thing? It’s better to control your own ability to do intel, than let someone else do it. Soon, all US Iphones will be built in the US with TSMC chips sourced in the US, for instance. The Chinese can always try to insert themselves in US production, but they can stand in line with everyone else who wants to give it a go.

    Reply
  91. Cool. Get away with it if you can! It’s only a crime if you get caught. Actually, it’s only a crime if a stronger country says it’s a crime.

    Reply
  92. Cool. Get away with it if you can! It’s only a crime if you get caught. Actually it’s only a crime if a stronger country says it’s a crime.

    Reply
  93. We are deeply disappointed that in their dealings with us, Bloomberg’s reporters have not been open to the possibility that they or their sources might be wrong or misinformed,” Apple said in a statement to Bloomberg that it subsequently directed media enquiries to. “Our best guess is that they are confusing their story with a previously reported 2016 incident in which we discovered an infected driver on a single Super Micro server in one of our labs.

    Reply
  94. We are deeply disappointed that in their dealings with us Bloomberg’s reporters have not been open to the possibility that they or their sources might be wrong or misinformed””” Apple said in a statement to Bloomberg that it subsequently directed media enquiries to. “”””Our best guess is that they are confusing their story with a previously reported 2016 incident in which we discovered an infected driver on a single Super Micro server in one of our labs.”””””””

    Reply
  95. Kindly provide us with a link to proof that China–or anybody–burgled CAP1400 documentation.

    You read such nonsense everywhere, but not in court records.

    Why? Because China leads the world in science and technology. Flat out. According to the Japan Science and Technology Agency, China now ranks as the most influential country in four of eight core scientific fields, tying with the U.S. The agency took the top 10% of the most referenced studies in each field, and determined the number of authors who were affiliated with the U.S., the U.K., Germany, France, China or Japan. China ranked first in computer science, mathematics, materials science and engineering. The U.S., on the other hand, led the way in physics, environmental and earth sciences, basic life science and clinical medicine. China is also rapidly catching up in physics, where the U.S. has long dominated. It is spending more than $6 billion to build the world’s largest particle accelerator, which could put it at the forefront of particle physics. https://tinyurl.com/ydeqeqnb.

    Chinese technology and deployment leads the world all fields of civil engineering, all fields of sustainable and renewable energy, manufacturing, supercomputing, speech recognition, graphenics, thorium power, pebble bed reactors, genomics, thermal power generation, quantum communication networks, ASW missiles, in-orbit satellite refueling, passive array radar, metamaterials, hyperspectral imaging, nanotechnology, UHV electricity transmission, HSR, radiotelescopy, hypersonic weapons, satellite quantum communications and quantum secure direct communications.. “Approximately 72% of the academic patent families published in QIT since 2012 have been from Chinese universities. US universities are a distant second with 12%.” (Patintformatics. https://patinformatics.com/quantum-computing-report/).

    Reply
  96. China licenced the AP1000 nuclear reactor off Westinghouse, with an agreement to develop its own larger version, the CAP1400 – but they still went in and burgled all the documentation, just in case.
    I’ve also read of an American wind turbine technician finding the latest, embargoed tech from his company while inspecting up inside turbines in China. Nothing new – it’s how everyone has always made progress, from Marco Polo’s time, through Germany and the US stealing British industrial advances, to today. Much of current American technology is being developed by immigrants, who are outperforming natives at the STEM subjects. The patent system is more designed for kicking away the ladder than rewarding genuine innovation.

    Reply
  97. What secrets, IP or other knowhow does the US possess that China cannot invent or license that it currently does not possess?

    And what would the alleged act–which will be forgotten as soon as the NATO meeting breaks up–do to further China’s acquisition of that desirable IP?

    And how might this current addition to our 70-year-old ‘slur China’ campaign serve to distract people from the fact that somewhere between 2020-2025 every Chinese will have a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health and old age care (the PRC is shooting for mid-2021).

    On that day there will be more homeless, poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China.

    And to drive the point home, by then 450,000,000 urban Chinese will have more net worth and disposable income than the average American, their mothers and infants will be less likely to die in childbirth, their children will graduate from high school three years ahead of–and outlive–American kids.

    Reply
  98. I know “Godfree Daniels” that you are a pro-Sino-dude. Every comment you make is always, infallibly, “go China go.”

    However, there is DEFINITELY a motive.
    Tapping into password files, to surreptitiously aid in clandestine forensics.
    Forensics thousands of miles away, done in the middle of the night, on weekends.
    Clandestine forensics to “learn stuff” to help the domestic Chinese effort…
    To replicate EVERYTHING CRITICAL for competing with American monopolies.

    There is a trillion dollar motive.
    How much would you do — if you were the politburo … to increase your country’s GDP
    by a Trillion dollars.
    Or three.

    Oh, imbedding a teeny-tiny-barely-visible chip seems obvious.
    Its cheap.
    A few million research, then just stick it in.
    And there it’ll sit… the electronic spy.
    Waiting for instructions as to what to spy upon.
    Later.
    Sometime later.

    Take your sinocentric apologist rhetoric away.
    It isn’t worth two dead flies.

    GoatGuy

    Reply
  99. Sure.. for 100,000 motherboards.

    You’ve got to take the server down, cleanly.
    And shuttle its workload to another server.
    Then unmount it from the rack.
    Bundle up all cables.

    Cart it off to the desolder facility.
    Unplug everything competently.
    Unplug the power supply competently.
    Blow out the dust (outside), since it’ll interfere with operating following…
    Desolder the chip.

    Solder IN the replacement chip… because the problem child ain’t “just a watcher”.
    Test the Mobo.
    Reattach it to the chassis.
    Plug all the cards and hard disks and so on back in.
    Then the power supply and ducting, and back/front cables.
    Power it up from USB, to custom-load a new O/S for certification.

    Certify.
    Patch the O/S that’ll be nominal runtime.
    Patch the apps that’ll depend on the patched O/S.
    Reboot natively.
    Certify that its working right, nominal, without problems.

    Package up the unit for re-installation in racks.
    Reinstall.
    Hook into network fabric, power fabric, cooling ducting fabric.
    Certify that it is capable of handling former load.
    Schedule to bring online.
    Bring online.
    Extra-closely observer that it is working appropriately for 5 days.

    That’s nothing, right?
    Nothing at all.
    1 0 0 , 0 0 0 times, for all the dâhmned servers affected.

    Oh sure.
    Its nothing at all.
    GoatGuy

    Reply
  100. Nah… American PCB (printed circuit board) makers are chomping at the bit to win back some honest competitive business, here. No need to ship the stuff to China, Taiwan or Japan. Just saying.

    GoatGuy

    Reply
  101. Readers, knowing that WMD allegations are our media’s main product, can choose their own explanations for the fact that there is no motive. No evidence. Alleged victims flatly deny it. NATO cybersecurity conference opens on Monday in Brussels.

    Reply
  102. There’s plenty of motive; the evidence is supposed to be with the FBI. The companies also have a motive to lie about the reality of the compromise, which can affect their bottom lines. In any case, just the fact that Supermicro has suddenly been unable to produce financial statements to the point of being delisted from Nasdaq is proof enough that there’s something afoot.

    Reply
  103. IS anyone surprised at this? 2012: “Chinese “backdoors” discovered in US military chips”

    “A Cambridge University research team has claimed Chinese manufacturers put “backdoors” into electronic chips used by the US military.

    Using “breakthrough silicon chip scanning technology”, researcher Sergei Skorobogatov said his team had found unauthorised access mechanisms inserted by the Chinese manufacturer of a chip used by the military.

    The chip was encrypted and locked by a key that his team was able to extract, effectively allowing it to be reprogrammed at will or disabled.

    Skorobogatov did not name the manufacturer but said the chip’s use was prevalent in many systems used by the military, ranging from weapons, nuclear power plants to public transport. He said the backdoor could be turned into an advanced Stuxnet-type weapon that could attack millions of systems.”

    Stories like this come up every few years. By now the assumption should be that any hardware or software out of China is compromised, until rigorously proven otherwise.

    I seriously can’t come up with any explanation short of treason why we’re still letting Chinese hardware be used in secure applications.

    Reply
  104. “We are deeply disappointed that in their dealings with us, Bloomberg’s reporters have not been open to the possibility that they or their sources might be wrong or misinformed,” Apple said in a statement to Bloomberg that it subsequently directed media enquiries to. “Our best guess is that they are confusing their story with a previously reported 2016 incident in which we discovered an infected driver on a single Super Micro server in one of our labs.”

    Reply
  105. You do have some points, but you need to remember the law of big numbers. It’s easier to grow 63% when you start with people collecting yak dung for cooking fires. The UN situation is complicated, and you can read it different ways, depending on what decade you focus on. Too much to get into right now.

    Reply
  106. You do have some points but you need to remember the law of big numbers. It’s easier to grow 63{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} when you start with people collecting yak dung for cooking fires. The UN situation is complicated and you can read it different ways depending on what decade you focus on. Too much to get into right now.

    Reply
  107. After WWII China was in self-isolation mode. It wasn’t until Nixon went there 50 years ago that the market opened up”?? Seriously, dude. The US embargoed the export of all technologies, finance and grains to China in 1949 and blocked its admission to the UN until Nixon lifted the restrictions. During those 25 years (all under Mao). from 1957 to 1975, China’s national income increased by 63 percent on a per capita basis during this period of rapid population growth, more than doubling overall and the basic foundations for modern industrialism were laid and outpacing every other development takeoff in history. In Germany the rate of economic growth 1880-1914 was 33 percent per decade. In Japan from 1874-1929 the rate was 43 percent. The Soviet Union over the period 1928-58 the rate was 54 percent. In China over the years 1952-72 the decadal rate was 64 percent. Bear in mind that, save for limited Soviet aid in the 1950s, repaid in full and with interest by 1966, Mao’s industrialization proceeded without benefit of foreign loans or investments–under punitive embargoes the entire 25 years–yet Mao was unique among developing country leaders in being able to claim an economy burdened by neither foreign debt nor internal inflation. Legitimate concerns about human rights (Tianamen square, Tibet, other minority groups within China)? No, they were not legitimate at all. Why do you think they were legitimate? IP protection has consistently been a concern, with knock-off products regularly made, both in tech and in fashion industries? Really? Any proof that it’s worse than between, say, US companies?

    Reply
  108. After WWII China was in self-isolation mode. It wasn’t until Nixon went there 50 years ago that the market opened up””??Seriously”” dude. The US embargoed the export of all technologies finance and grains to China in 1949 and blocked its admission to the UN until Nixon lifted the restrictions.During those 25 years (all under Mao). from 1957 to 1975 China’s national income increased by 63 percent on a per capita basis during this period of rapid population growth more than doubling overall and the basic foundations for modern industrialism were laid and outpacing every other development takeoff in history. In Germany the rate of economic growth 1880-1914 was 33 percent per decade. In Japan from 1874-1929 the rate was 43 percent. The Soviet Union over the period 1928-58 the rate was 54 percent. In China over the years 1952-72 the decadal rate was 64 percent. Bear in mind that save for limited Soviet aid in the 1950s repaid in full and with interest by 1966 Mao’s industrialization proceeded without benefit of foreign loans or investments–under punitive embargoes the entire 25 years–yet Mao was unique among developing country leaders in being able to claim an economy burdened by neither foreign debt nor internal inflation. Legitimate concerns about human rights (Tianamen square Tibet other minority groups within China)? No they were not legitimate at all. Why do you think they were legitimate? IP protection has consistently been a concern with knock-off products regularly made both in tech and in fashion industries? Really? Any proof that it’s worse than between say”” US companies?”””””””

    Reply

Leave a Comment