Dwarf planet TG387 points to larger planet X in our solar system

Carnegie’s Scott Sheppard and his colleagues—Northern Arizona University’s Chad Trujillo, and the University of Hawaii’s David Tholen—are once again redefining our Solar System’s edge. They discovered a new extremely distant object far beyond Pluto with an orbit that supports the presence of an even-farther-out, Super-Earth or larger Planet X.

2015 TG387 was discovered about 80 astronomical units (AU) from the Sun, a measurement defined as the distance between the Earth and Sun. For context, Pluto is around 34 AU, so 2015 TG387 is about two and a half times further away from the Sun than Pluto is right now.

2015 TG387 is about 300 kilometers across in size. This likely classifies it as a dwarf planet.

Above – The orbits of the new extreme dwarf planet, 2015 TG387, and its fellow Inner Oort Cloud objects, 2012 VP113 and Sedna, as compared with the rest of the Solar System. 2015 TG387 was nicknamed “The Goblin” by the discoverers, as its provisional designation contains TG and the object was first seen near Halloween. 2015 TG387 has a larger semi-major axis than either 2012 VP113 or Sedna, which means it travels much further from the Sun at its most distant point in its orbit, which is around 2,300 AU. Illustration by Roberto Molar Candanosa and Scott Sheppard, courtesy of Carnegie Institution for Science.

2015 TG387 is likely on the small end of being a dwarf planet since it has a diameter near 300 kilometers. The location in the sky where 2015 TG387 reaches perihelion is similar to 2012 VP113, Sedna, and most other known extremely distant trans-Neptunian objects, suggesting that something is pushing them into similar types of orbits.

“We think there could be thousands of small bodies like 2015 TG387 out on the Solar System’s fringes, but their distance makes finding them very difficult,” Tholen said. “Currently we would only detect 2015 TG387 when it is near its closest approach to the Sun. For some 99 percent of its 40,000-year orbit, it would be too faint to see.”

The new object is on a very elongated orbit and never comes closer to the Sun, a point called perihelion, than about 65 AU. Only 2012 VP113 and Sedna at 80 and 76 AU respectively have more-distant perihelia than 2015 TG387. Though 2015 TG387 has the third-most-distant perihelion, its orbital semi-major axis is larger than 2012 VP113 and Sedna’s, meaning it travels much farther from the Sun than they do. At its furthest point, it reaches all the way out to about 2,300 AU. 2015 TG387 is one of the few known objects that never comes close enough to the Solar System’s giant planets, like Neptune and Jupiter, to have significant gravitational interactions with them.

The object was discovered as part of the team’s ongoing hunt for unknown dwarf planets and Planet X. It is the largest and deepest survey ever conducted for distant Solar System objects.

“These distant objects are like breadcrumbs leading us to Planet X. The more of them we can find, the better we can understand the outer Solar System and the possible planet that we think is shaping their orbits—a discovery that would redefine our knowledge of the Solar System’s evolution,” Sheppard added.

Trujillo and University of Oklahoma’s Nathan Kaib ran computer simulations for how different hypothetical Planet X orbits would affect the orbit of 2015 TG387. The simulations included a Super-Earth-mass planet at several hundred AU on an elongated orbit as proposed by Caltech’s Konstantin Batygin and Michael Brown in 2016. Most of the simulations showed that not only was 2015 TG387’s orbit stable for the age of the Solar System, but it was actually shepherded by Planet X’s gravity, which keeps the smaller 2015 TG387 away from the massive planet. This gravitational shepherding could explain why the most-distant objects in our Solar System have similar orbits. These orbits keep them from ever approaching the proposed planet too closely, which is similar to how Pluto never gets too close to Neptune even though their orbits cross.

“What makes this result really interesting is that Planet X seems to affect 2015 TG387 the same way as all the other extremely distant Solar System objects. These simulations do not prove that there’s another massive planet in our Solar System, but they are further evidence that something big could be out there” Trujillo concludes.

Based on data collected at Subaru Telescope, which is operated by the National Astronomical Observatory of Japan. These results made use of the Discovery Channel Telescope at Lowell Observatory. Lowell is a private, non-profit institution dedicated to astrophysical research and public appreciation of astronomy and operates the DCT in partnership with Boston University, the University of Maryland, the University of Toledo, Northern Arizona University and Yale University. These results used the Large Monolithic Imager, which was built by Lowell Observatory using funds provided by the National Science Foundation (AST-1005313). This paper includes data gathered with the 6.5 meter Magellan Telescopes located at Las Campanas Observatory, Chile.

18 thoughts on “Dwarf planet TG387 points to larger planet X in our solar system”

  1. Warmkessel’s Comment 2 Oct. 2018 Note that the orbital period of 2015 TG387 is in an 8:1 orbital resonance with Forbes’ Planet (5000 +/- (200) years) /Vulcan’s (4969.0 +/- 11.5 years) orbital period: 40000/5000 = 8.000 [Forbes Planet: an exact integer value. Barry W.] 40000/4969 = 8.050 [Vulcan: close to an integer value. – Barry W.] Both suggest that 2015 TG387 is in a 8:1 orbital resonance with Vulcan. If so, future refinements of 2015 TG387’s orbit may approach 39792 years. Vulcan Revealed Vulcan’s Orbital Parameters (Via Blavatsky’s Theosophy & Astronomer Forbes) http://barry.warmkessel.com/vulcanrevealed.html#5 The chances of these three vectors fortuitously [accidentally] falling in the same orbit plane inclination with such a tiny angular uncertainty as Vulcan’s is about one chance in 250 [1/250 or 0.4 %]. Put another way, there are about 249 chances out of 250 [99.6%] that the body described in Table 2 is Blavatsky’s ‘Vulcan’. Vulcan/Planet Nine’s existence was either missed or suppressed with the NEWS media releases suggesting the latter (Mystery Heavenly Body Perhaps As Big As Jupiter – O’Toole). This Vulcan/Planet Nine correlation indicates the following: 1. The very low probability of fortuitous occurrence (0.004) strongly suggests that our solar body Vulcan/Planet Nine is at or is very near one of the first nine IRAS Objects detected (1732+239). 2. Assuming that Vulcan has been photographed, a simple way to find which of the many objects on the appropriate photographic plate that contains the cited IRAS object 1732+239 is to re-photograph this region of the sky and do a ‘blink’ comparison using this and the new photograph. The stars will remain fixed, Vulcan will have moved on to a new location. 3. This very low probability of fortuitous occurrence suggests that IRAS point 1732+239 was moving (past aphelion but “not incoming mail”). The IRAS satellite was targeted by the Pioneer and Voyager spacecraft results thus a body (Almost As Big As Jupiter) as de

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  2. Warmkessel’s Comment 2 Oct. 2018Note that the orbital period of 2015 TG387 is in an 8:1 orbital resonance with Forbes’ Planet (5000 +/- (200) years) /Vulcan’s (4969.0 +/- 11.5 years) orbital period:40000/5000 = 8.000 [Forbes Planet: an exact integer value. Barry W.]40000/4969 = 8.050 [Vulcan: close to an integer value. – Barry W.]Both suggest that 2015 TG387 is in a 8:1 orbital resonance with Vulcan.If so future refinements of 2015 TG387’s orbit may approach 39792 years.Vulcan RevealedVulcan’s Orbital Parameters (Via Blavatsky’s Theosophy & Astronomer Forbes)http://barry.warmkessel.com/vulcanrevealed.html#5The chances of these three vectors fortuitously [accidentally] falling in the same orbit plane inclination with such a tiny angular uncertainty as Vulcan’s is about one chance in 250 [1/250 or 0.4 {22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}]. Put another way there are about 249 chances out of 250 [99.6{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}] that the body described in Table 2 is Blavatsky’s ‘Vulcan’. Vulcan/Planet Nine’s existence was either missed or suppressed with the NEWS media releases suggesting the latter (Mystery Heavenly Body Perhaps As Big As Jupiter – O’Toole). This Vulcan/Planet Nine correlation indicates the following:1. The very low probability of fortuitous occurrence (0.004) strongly suggests that our solar body Vulcan/Planet Nine is at or is very near one of the first nine IRAS Objects detected (1732+239).2. Assuming that Vulcan has been photographed a simple way to find which of the many objects on the appropriate photographic plate that contains the cited IRAS object 1732+239 is to re-photograph this region of the sky and do a ‘blink’ comparison using this and the new photograph. The stars will remain fixed Vulcan will have moved on to a new location.3. This very low probability of fortuitous occurrence suggests that IRAS point 1732+239 was moving (past aphe

    Reply
  3. Warmkessel’s Comment 2 Oct. 2018
    Note that the orbital period of 2015 TG387 is in an 8:1 orbital resonance with Forbes’ Planet (5000 +/- (200) years) /Vulcan’s (4969.0 +/- 11.5 years) orbital period:
    40000/5000 = 8.000 [Forbes Planet: an exact integer value. Barry W.]
    40000/4969 = 8.050 [Vulcan: close to an integer value. – Barry W.]
    Both suggest that 2015 TG387 is in a 8:1 orbital resonance with Vulcan.
    If so, future refinements of 2015 TG387’s orbit may approach 39792 years.
    Vulcan Revealed
    Vulcan’s Orbital Parameters (Via Blavatsky’s Theosophy & Astronomer Forbes)
    http://barry.warmkessel.com/vulcanrevealed.html#5
    The chances of these three vectors fortuitously [accidentally] falling in the same orbit plane inclination with such a tiny angular uncertainty as Vulcan’s is about one chance in 250 [1/250 or 0.4 %]. Put another way, there are about 249 chances out of 250 [99.6%] that the body described in Table 2 is Blavatsky’s ‘Vulcan’. Vulcan/Planet Nine’s existence was either missed or suppressed with the NEWS media releases suggesting the latter (Mystery Heavenly Body Perhaps As Big As Jupiter – O’Toole). This Vulcan/Planet Nine correlation indicates the following:
    1. The very low probability of fortuitous occurrence (0.004) strongly suggests that our solar body Vulcan/Planet Nine is at or is very near one of the first nine IRAS Objects detected (1732+239).
    2. Assuming that Vulcan has been photographed, a simple way to find which of the many objects on the appropriate photographic plate that contains the cited IRAS object 1732+239 is to re-photograph this region of the sky and do a ‘blink’ comparison using this and the new photograph. The stars will remain fixed, Vulcan will have moved on to a new location.
    3. This very low probability of fortuitous occurrence suggests that IRAS point 1732+239 was moving (past aphelion but “not incoming mail”). The IRAS satellite was targeted by the Pioneer and Voyager spacecraft results thus a body (Almost As Big As Jupiter) as depicted on Sitchen’s Akkadian seal was found. This IRAS point was the probable cause of the NEWS media releases.
    4. The U. Of AZ astronomers estimating that Planet Nine’s orbital inclination could be near 18o or 48o and Vulcan’s 48.44o suggests that they are one and the same body.
    5. The Spanish astronomers suggesting that Planet Nine’s semi major axis in the 300 to 400 AU range re-enforces the suspicion that both it and Vulcan’s/Forbes’ planet (semi major axis 291.2/292.4 AU) belong to one and the same body because the probability of Fortuitous [accidental] correlation of Vulcan’s/Forbes’ planet orbital parameters is almost zero (0.00000263).

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  4. Note: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_TG387 2015 TG387 (nicknamed The Goblin for the letters TG, and because its discovery was near Halloween)[4] is a trans-Neptunian object and sednoid in the outermost part of the Solar System.[5] It was first observed on October 13, 2015, by astronomers David J. Tholen, Scott Sheppard and Chad Trujillo with the Subaru Telescope at Mauna Kea Observatories, and publicly announced on October 1, 2018.[1][6] Orbital period 34080 years. [maybe 34080 is the old 2015 value as they are now shifting to a longer 40000 year period – Barry w] 34080/4969(Vulcan’s Period) = 6.859 40000/4969 = 8.05 [closer to an integer value. -Barry W.] That suggests it may be in a 8:1 orbital resonance with Vulcan. If so, future refinements of its orbit may approach 39792 years.

    Reply
  5. Note:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_TG3872015 TG387 (nicknamed The Goblin for the letters TG and because its discovery was near Halloween)[4] is a trans-Neptunian object and sednoid in the outermost part of the Solar System.[5] It was first observed on October 13 2015 by astronomers David J. Tholen Scott Sheppard and Chad Trujillo with the Subaru Telescope at Mauna Kea Observatories and publicly announced on October 1 2018.[1][6]Orbital period 34080 years. [maybe 34080 is the old 2015 value as they are now shifting to a longer 40000 year period – Barry w]34080/4969(Vulcan’s Period) = 6.85940000/4969 = 8.05 [closer to an integer value. -Barry W.]That suggests it may be in a 8:1 orbital resonance with Vulcan.If so future refinements of its orbit may approach 39792 years.”

    Reply
  6. Transneptunian bodies seem to be very rich in carbon and other volatile elements. With surface crusts made of frozen hydrocarbons, these bodies tend to have very low albedos. Another reason why they are hard to find.

    Reply
  7. Transneptunian bodies seem to be very rich in carbon and other volatile elements.With surface crusts made of frozen hydrocarbons these bodies tend to have very low albedos. Another reason why they are hard to find.

    Reply
  8. Admittedly risking to make a fool of myself, I’d have 2 questions: – 0.1 albedo? Basically a giant chunk of carbon coke? I’m not expecting it to sparkle, but being in the Oort cloud, which is supposedly full of water and other bright stuff, and being it perhaps (hopefully?) something in between Earth and Uranus, a 0.4 value could be more realistic, couldn’t it? – wouldn’t it make more sense to look up for infrared rather than green?

    Reply
  9. Admittedly risking to make a fool of myself I’d have 2 questions:- 0.1 albedo? Basically a giant chunk of carbon coke? I’m not expecting it to sparkle but being in the Oort cloud which is supposedly full of water and other bright stuff and being it perhaps (hopefully?) something in between Earth and Uranus a 0.4 value could be more realistic couldn’t it?- wouldn’t it make more sense to look up for infrared rather than green?

    Reply
  10. Thing is… That the DISTANCES involved in the Oört Cloud are profoundly working against actual discovery of Planet 9 (or 10). Sobering. Here are select driving parameters: (1.1) … JeV = 1.6×10⁻¹⁹ joule/eV (1.2) … D₁ = 1,000 AU (1.3) … d₁ = 25,000 km diameter (1.4) … k = albedo = 0.10 (1.5) … λ = 550 nm (green) From trig and physics… (2.1) … Ar = angular res = 1.67×10⁻⁷ radians (d₁ / D₁), (2.2) … min mirror diam = 1.22 λ / Ar = 4.0 m (3.1) … I = insolation = 1363 W/m² • (1 AU ÷ 1000 AU)² = 0.001363 w/m² (3.2) … F = reflected flux = kI = 0.0001363 w/m² (3.3) … E = isotropic emission = F*area = 10.6 gigawatts (3.4) … n = light flux at earth = E ÷ 2π • (¹⁄₁₀₀₀)² AU = 4.7×10⁻¹⁹ w/m² (3.5) … s = light into scope = n*area = 6.1×10⁻¹⁸ W (3.6) … ph = photons/sec = s / eV / JeV = 19 photons/sec So, from a 4 meter (not very big) telescope, pointing in the right direction to ‘see’ the between-Earth-and-Uranus sized Planet 10, it would receive about 19 photons per second on the imaging plate. Integrated over minutes, this is an ‘imageable’ light flux. But, if it is smaller (more like Mars, diameter 6700 km), then a 15 meter space scope is needed; even so, the flux STAYS EXACTLY THE SAME at 19 photons per second. Funny how that physics works out. To actually research such a distant object, one really needs a 100 m telescope, in space. Big, fantastic, reliable and capable. A 100 m telescope would realize over 800 photons per second. Moreover, it’d be able to image the distant world with a resolution better than 1000 km-a-pixel. It is, again, sobering. What distance does to closing our window on observing JUST our own back yard. Just saying, GoatGuy

    Reply
  11. Thing is…That the DISTANCES involved in the Oört Cloud are profoundly working against actual discovery of Planet 9 (or 10). Sobering. Here are select driving parameters:(1.1) … JeV = 1.6×10⁻¹⁹ joule/eV(1.2) … D₁ = 1000 AU(1.3) … d₁ = 25000 km diameter(1.4) … k = albedo = 0.10(1.5) … λ = 550 nm (green)From trig and physics…(2.1) … Ar = angular res = 1.67×10⁻⁷ radians (d₁ / D₁)(2.2) … min mirror diam = 1.22 λ / Ar = 4.0 m(3.1) … I = insolation = 1363 W/m² • (1 AU ÷ 1000 AU)² = 0.001363 w/m²(3.2) … F = reflected flux = kI = 0.0001363 w/m²(3.3) … E = isotropic emission = F*area = 10.6 gigawatts(3.4) … n = light flux at earth = E ÷ 2π • (¹⁄₁₀₀₀)² AU = 4.7×10⁻¹⁹ w/m²(3.5) … s = light into scope = n*area = 6.1×10⁻¹⁸ W(3.6) … ph = photons/sec = s / eV / JeV = 19 photons/secSo from a 4 meter (not very big) telescope pointing in the right direction to ‘see’ the between-Earth-and-Uranus sized Planet 10 it would receive about 19 photons per second on the imaging plate. Integrated over minutes this is an ‘imageable’ light flux. But if it is smaller (more like Mars diameter 6700 km) then a 15 meter space scope is needed; even so the flux STAYS EXACTLY THE SAME at 19 photons per second. Funny how that physics works out. To actually research such a distant object one really needs a 100 m telescope in space. Big fantastic reliable and capable. A 100 m telescope would realize over 800 photons per second. Moreover it’d be able to image the distant world with a resolution better than 1000 km-a-pixel. It is again sobering.What distance does to closing our window on observing JUST our own back yard.Just sayingGoatGuy”

    Reply
  12. Note:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_TG387
    2015 TG387 (nicknamed The Goblin for the letters TG, and because its discovery was near Halloween)[4] is a trans-Neptunian object and sednoid in the outermost part of the Solar

    System.[5] It was first observed on October 13, 2015, by astronomers David J. Tholen, Scott Sheppard and Chad Trujillo with the Subaru Telescope at Mauna Kea Observatories, and

    publicly announced on October 1, 2018.[1][6]

    Orbital period 34080 years. [maybe 34080 is the old 2015 value as they are now shifting to a longer 40000 year period – Barry w]

    34080/4969(Vulcan’s Period) = 6.859
    40000/4969 = 8.05 [closer to an integer value. -Barry W.]

    That suggests it may be in a 8:1 orbital resonance with Vulcan.

    If so, future refinements of its orbit may approach 39792 years.

    Reply
  13. And a good opportunity to determine the existence of physics beyond Einstein, as per Mike McCulloch’s latest updates. He refers that this planet ought to show a significant, detectable change in inertial mass as per his theory, resulting in measurable anomalies in its orbital trajectory. He may be wrong, but his theory at least has plenty of opportunities for falsifiability. Which I applaud.

    Reply
  14. And a good opportunity to determine the existence of physics beyond Einstein as per Mike McCulloch’s latest updates.He refers that this planet ought to show a significant detectable change in inertial mass as per his theory resulting in measurable anomalies in its orbital trajectory.He may be wrong but his theory at least has plenty of opportunities for falsifiability. Which I applaud.

    Reply
  15. Transneptunian bodies seem to be very rich in carbon and other volatile elements.

    With surface crusts made of frozen hydrocarbons, these bodies tend to have very low albedos. Another reason why they are hard to find.

    Reply
  16. Admittedly risking to make a fool of myself, I’d have 2 questions:
    – 0.1 albedo? Basically a giant chunk of carbon coke? I’m not expecting it to sparkle, but being in the Oort cloud, which is supposedly full of water and other bright stuff, and being it perhaps (hopefully?) something in between Earth and Uranus, a 0.4 value could be more realistic, couldn’t it?
    – wouldn’t it make more sense to look up for infrared rather than green?

    Reply
  17. Thing is…

    That the DISTANCES involved in the Oört Cloud are profoundly working against actual discovery of Planet 9 (or 10). Sobering.

    Here are select driving parameters:

    (1.1) … JeV = 1.6×10⁻¹⁹ joule/eV
    (1.2) … D₁ = 1,000 AU
    (1.3) … d₁ = 25,000 km diameter
    (1.4) … k = albedo = 0.10
    (1.5) … λ = 550 nm (green)

    From trig and physics…

    (2.1) … Ar = angular res = 1.67×10⁻⁷ radians (d₁ / D₁),
    (2.2) … min mirror diam = 1.22 λ / Ar = 4.0 m

    (3.1) … I = insolation = 1363 W/m² • (1 AU ÷ 1000 AU)² = 0.001363 w/m²
    (3.2) … F = reflected flux = kI = 0.0001363 w/m²
    (3.3) … E = isotropic emission = F*area = 10.6 gigawatts
    (3.4) … n = light flux at earth = E ÷ 2π • (¹⁄₁₀₀₀)² AU = 4.7×10⁻¹⁹ w/m²
    (3.5) … s = light into scope = n*area = 6.1×10⁻¹⁸ W
    (3.6) … ph = photons/sec = s / eV / JeV = 19 photons/sec

    So, from a 4 meter (not very big) telescope, pointing in the right direction to ‘see’ the between-Earth-and-Uranus sized Planet 10, it would receive about 19 photons per second on the imaging plate. Integrated over minutes, this is an ‘imageable’ light flux.

    But, if it is smaller (more like Mars, diameter 6700 km), then a 15 meter space scope is needed; even so, the flux STAYS EXACTLY THE SAME at 19 photons per second. Funny how that physics works out.

    To actually research such a distant object, one really needs a 100 m telescope, in space. Big, fantastic, reliable and capable. A 100 m telescope would realize over 800 photons per second. Moreover, it’d be able to image the distant world with a resolution better than 1000 km-a-pixel.

    It is, again, sobering.
    What distance does to closing our window on observing JUST our own back yard.

    Just saying,
    GoatGuy

    Reply
  18. And a good opportunity to determine the existence of physics beyond Einstein, as per Mike McCulloch’s latest updates.

    He refers that this planet ought to show a significant, detectable change in inertial mass as per his theory, resulting in measurable anomalies in its orbital trajectory.

    He may be wrong, but his theory at least has plenty of opportunities for falsifiability. Which I applaud.

    Reply

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