Is the Big Insane Ask easier?

What is the purpose of the UN IPCC climate reports when they have insane economics and do not provide any remotely reasonable action plans, goals or priorities?

There are many simpler steps that can be taken that can pay for themselves by improving health, saving lives and lifting up the poor. There are steps that can be taken by removing carbon on a large scale while also creating massive amounts of food.

After I describe how much IPCC is asking for and the effect beyond the money, I will describe fixes that are partially underway but underfunded and which can be scaled up while being compatible with civilization of today.

How many trillions is in the IPCC plan?

In 2018, IPCC said limiting global warming to 1.5°C would need annual average investment needs in the energy system of around 2.4 trillion USD2010 per year between 2016 and 2035 representing about 2.5% of the world GDP. $48 trillion of investment. They do not talk about how many more trillions are needed from 2036-2100.

So 2016-2018 has already passed and it would take years to adjust the supply chain to enable any vast energy system transformation mobilization. $2.4 trillion is 41% more than world military budgets of $1.7 trillion. IPCC as using 2010 dollars so that probably makes the asked spending 50% more than all of the worlds military budgets.

Besides asking for more money than in military budgets, the IPCC basically is asking for all people to turn their lives and countries and economies upside down. It is the difference asking someone for reallocating 2% and getting a higher return and asking for 100%.

In 2014, the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change said that efforts to stabilize levels of greenhouse-gas emissions would require investments of about $13 trillion from 2015 through 2030. It also noted that reducing emissions would reduce the rate of economic growth (as a result of such factors as higher energy prices). Switching from fossil fuels to low-carbon sources of energy would cost $44 trillion between now and 2050.

Global renewable energy spending has been flat for seven years at about $250 billion per year.

Global investment in renewable energy (Solar, Wind, Hydro and biofuel) edged up 2% in 2017 to $279.8 billion, taking cumulative investment since 2010 to $2.2 trillion.

China spent $126.6 billion on renewable power. This was the highest figure ever and more than 45% of the global total. China 53GW installed with solar investment of $86.5 billion, up 58%. Renewable energy investment in the U.S. was down 6% at $40.5 billion. Europe had a decline of 36% to $40.9 billion.

Nuclear power in the USA generated 56% of the carbon-free energy in the USA.

Total global energy investment totaled USD1.8 trillion in 2017 which was a 2% decline in real terms from 2016. More than $750 billion was spent on the electricity sector last year, while $715 billion was spent on oil and gas supply.

Over the past five years, nuclear plants with a total capacity of over 40 GWe have obtained permission to extend their operational lifetime beyond 40 years, the report notes. Investment over that period averaged around USD7 billion – three times more than over the previous five years.

“Assuming these plants run an extra ten years, generation from lifetime extensions over the past five years is equivalent to 15% of expected lifetime output from solar PV and wind investments over the same period, at just 3% of the cost,” the IEA said. “At 20 years of long-term operation, the output from these upgrades would be equivalent to one-third of expected lifetime output from the solar PV and wind investments.”

About $10-40 billion per year in support would keep existing nuclear plants competitive natural gas and coal.

Nuclear power in the USA helped avoid 550 million tons of carbon per year from fossil fuel.

Fix 80% black carbon within 12 years for less than $500 billion

Black carbon has a warming impact on climate 460-1,500 times stronger than CO2 per unit of mass.

The average atmospheric lifetime of black carbon particles is 4-12 days.

About 6.6 million tonnes of black carbon were emitted in 2015.

Household cooking and heating account for 58% of global black carbon emissions.

Action on soot and methane has all of the temperature impact from now to 2040. CO2 intervention impacts the 2050 and beyond.

$100-200 billion fix for 25% of black carbon

Around 2.8 billion people cook using polluting open fires or simple stoves fuelled by kerosene, biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal. Each year, close to 4 million people die prematurely from illness attributable to household air pollution from inefficient cooking practices using polluting stoves paired with solid fuels and kerosene.

Black carbon is the second largest contributor to climate change after CO2 and burning solid fuels for cooking and heating in homes produces approximately 25% of total black carbon emissions. Since the atmospheric lifetime of black carbon is only a few days, reducing black carbon emissions can bring about a more rapid climate response than reductions in greenhouse gases alone. In addition, unsustainable harvesting of wood for fuel not only contributes to forest degradation, but is a major driver of climate change when burned in inefficient stoves. These woodfuel emissions account for 2% of global emissions, the equivalent of the entire aviation sector.

With 1,800 partners that make up the Global Alliance for Clean Cookstoves, more than 80 million households have gained access to clean and/or efficient cookstoves and fuels as of the end of 2016.

Larson (2014) estimates that the global net benefits of switching from traditional to various improved cookstoves (ICS) lies between $18 to 54 billion per year.

The IEA projects that a total investment of $95 billion will be needed to achieve universal access to clean cooking by 2030, amounting to annual global investments of $4.5 billion. To achieve universal access to clean cooking by 2030, the IEA estimates the need for $95 billion over two decades. The Global Energy Assessment (GEA) report places the funding need at $36–41 billion annually over the same time period to achieve universal electricity and clean cooking energy access, with over 20% of the total being attributed to cooking.

Fixing 75% of black carbon from transportation

One-fifth of global anthropogenic BC emissions are estimated to originate
in the transport sector.

A 75 percent reduction in black carbon emissions by 2030 would contribute to delivering a 0.5 degree reduction in near-term average warming. Diesel engines accounted for 88% of black carbon (BC) emissions from road transport in 2010.

China has requiring all new trucks, buses and other heavy-duty vehicles powered by diesel would have to meet Euro VI equivalent emissions standards from 2021, ensures that two-thirds of the world’s new heavy-duty diesel vehicles will be soot-free in three years’ time.

Most effective means of addressing CO2 is to rapidly grow a lot of kelp

The world will overshoot 1.5 degrees and overshoot 2 degrees. This is obvious. All of those plans for stabilizing involve massive CO2 removal.

The best CO2 removal is to scale up ocean aquaculture to the near the level of land agriculture.

The oceans are 70% of the earth’s surface and it is vital to fixing climate.

25% of the land is covered with farms. We will need to use 9% of the oceans for ocean farms for kelp, fish and shellfish.

It will also be better to grow our own fish instead of mass hunting for wild fish. Just like we do on land. We do not hunt buffalo anymore. We raise cows.

We already grow 25 million tons of kelp- seaweed each year. This is a $5 billion a year industry. We can make this 1000 times bigger.

BTW: when they talk about carbon sequestering from carbon capture at plants they do not emphasize that you would need to build separate pipeline systems for sending the captured carbon back into the ground. This would end up being 2-4 trillion tons of gases stored back into reservoirs where we took out oil and natural gas. This would have to built everywhere and would be as large as the existing oil and gas industry because it would be in reverse. Also, the solar and wind part of a solution would also be massive and take up a lot of land.

We grow a massive new industry instead of proposing to rip up existing civilization.

Kelp grows 30 times faster than trees.

Seaweed farms buffer the ocean’s growing acidity and provide ideal conditions for the cultivation of a variety of shellfish.

If 9% of the ocean were to be covered in seaweed farms, the farmed seaweed could produce 12 gigatonnes per year of biodigested methane which could be burned as a substitute for natural gas. The seaweed growth involved would capture 19 gigatonnes of CO₂. A further 34 gigatonnes per year of CO₂ could be taken from the atmosphere if the methane is burned to generate electricity and the CO₂ generated captured and stored.

What might a kelp farming facility of the future look like?

Dr Brian von Hertzen of the Climate Foundation has proposed a frame structure. It is mostly carbon polymer, up to a square kilometer in extent and sunk far enough below the surface (about 25 meters) to avoid being a shipping hazard. Planted with kelp, the frame would be interspersed with containers for shellfish and other kinds of fish as well. There would be no netting. Robotic removal of encrusting organisms would probably also be part of the facility. The marine permaculture would be designed to clip the bottom of the waves during heavy seas. Below it, a pipe reaching down to 200–500 meters would bring cool, nutrient-rich water to the frame, where it would be reticulated over the growing kelp.

135 thoughts on “Is the Big Insane Ask easier?”

  1. On top of everything else, can we bother proving 1.5 degrees warmer is a problem? Because throughout human history, warmer has been better.

  2. On top of everything else can we bother proving 1.5 degrees warmer is a problem? Because throughout human history warmer has been better.

  3. Very few people live on permafrost. Deserts don’t contribute much to agriculture. However historical he is very correct, warm periods had high population growth, cold periods==winter is coming, famines and wars. Add that more CO2 in atmosphere give more plant growth, this is an noticeable effect and negate around 25% of co2 emissions. Yes its likely to be serious problems because of climate changes, mostly weather changes perhaps growing conditions of plants, As US and Australia is main agriculture exporters changes who hit them will probably affect food supply. Other areas might not be able to match them. On the other hand agriculture in lots of the 3rd world is very inefficient.

  4. This is insane. People don’t understand that you have to invest money whether or not you go renewable or you stay with fossil fuel. You have to explore for new fossil fuel, you have to drill and you have to extract. It costs money. You have to build, refurbish, and maintenance coal power plants. Renewable will be cheaper in the long run, much cheaper than fossil fuel.

  5. Your are right Tom, we should wait until we are totally %$@#ed before we even try do anything! 😉 😉 😉 For starters warmer isn’t better if you live in or near a desert. 😉 Warmer is also not all that great if your house is built on permafrost either. 🙂

  6. The purpose is to justify the imposition of a world-wide command economy. You should have figured that out decades ago.

  7. Ha, no nuclear power, no iron fertilization, no actual solutions but political power grabs by the well-meaning members of the AGW cult, imposing taxation, economic and freedom restrictions mostly over the west and the USA. The Emperor really has no clothes! The purely politically motivated, anti-capitalistic, anti-west in general, anti-USA in particular agenda of the global warming movement is open for everyone to see.

  8. Very few people live on permafrost. Deserts don’t contribute much to agriculture. However historical he is very correct warm periods had high population growth cold periods==winter is coming famines and wars. Add that more CO2 in atmosphere give more plant growth this is an noticeable effect and negate around 25{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of co2 emissions. Yes its likely to be serious problems because of climate changes mostly weather changes perhaps growing conditions of plants As US and Australia is main agriculture exporters changes who hit them will probably affect food supply. Other areas might not be able to match them. On the other hand agriculture in lots of the 3rd world is very inefficient.

  9. This is insane. People don’t understand that you have to invest money whether or not you go renewable or you stay with fossil fuel. You have to explore for new fossil fuel you have to drill and you have to extract. It costs money. You have to build refurbish and maintenance coal power plants. Renewable will be cheaper in the long run much cheaper than fossil fuel.

  10. Your are right Tom we should wait until we are totally {22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}$@#ed before we even try do anything! 😉 😉 ;-)For starters warmer isn’t better if you live in or near a desert. 😉 Warmer is also not all that great if your house is built on permafrost either. 🙂

  11. The purpose is to justify the imposition of a world-wide command economy. You should have figured that out decades ago.

  12. Ha no nuclear power no iron fertilization no actual solutions but political power grabs by the well-meaning members of the AGW cult imposing taxation economic and freedom restrictions mostly over the west and the USA. The Emperor really has no clothes!The purely politically motivated anti-capitalistic anti-west in general anti-USA in particular agenda of the global warming movement is open for everyone to see.

  13. What is the purpose of the UN IPCC climate reports when they have insane economics and do not provide any remotely reasonable action plans, goals or priorities?

  14. You’re already ignoring all of physics, geology, archeology, the actual meteorological measurements actually taken to conclude there is any validity to the AGW concept. Why not deny recorded reality a little more?

  15. The UN IPCC is a political organization designed (now) to give cover to those with totalitarian instincts. It allows hem to proceed based on a (consensus-based) belief that they are forces for good. No matter how many must suffer privation because of their policies.

  16. What is the purpose of the UN IPCC climate reports when they have insane economics and do not provide any remotely reasonable action plans” goals or priorities? “” “””

  17. You’re already ignoring all of physics geology archeology the actual meteorological measurements actually taken to conclude there is any validity to the AGW concept. Why not deny recorded reality a little more?

  18. The UN IPCC is a political organization designed (now) to give cover to those with totalitarian instincts. It allows hem to proceed based on a (consensus-based) belief that they are forces for good. No matter how many must suffer privation because of their policies.

  19. The only other major things I wish the article had covered were: 1. Tax Shifts: entirely off of Profits, Building, Sales, and Wages and onto: Pollution – including Carbon, Land/Air/Water; Extractive actions, e.g. Severance taxes for oil/gas and coal; Site Values, to discourage hoarding and inefficient building. This tax shift from goods to Bads will be enough because we can make it be enough by simply deciding to collect the same in taxes from the latter. This will be an equally powerful incentive to produce and innovate as it would be to reduce pollution and resource and land use. 2. More about how growing seaweed (kelp?) can eliminate 97% of cattle methane when mixed with feed. This was already shown in a previous NBF article. 3. Enhanced technological pushes for: – Thorium nuclear and other safe nuclear previously covered by NBF – Solar Windows on all large buildings. A company called Solar Windows says up to 50% of electricity can be generated by replacing all normal windows with equally transparent Solar Windows(tm). – Increased R&D towards more efficient Solar (currently only ~20% efficient), battery technology (must have for all renewables when sun/wind not available).

  20. The only other major things I wish the article had covered were:1. Tax Shifts: entirely off of Profits Building Sales and Wages and onto: Pollution – including Carbon Land/Air/Water; Extractive actions e.g. Severance taxes for oil/gas and coal; Site Values to discourage hoarding and inefficient building. This tax shift from goods to Bads will be enough because we can make it be enough by simply deciding to collect the same in taxes from the latter. This will be an equally powerful incentive to produce and innovate as it would be to reduce pollution and resource and land use.2. More about how growing seaweed (kelp?) can eliminate 97{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of cattle methane when mixed with feed. This was already shown in a previous NBF article.3. Enhanced technological pushes for:- Thorium nuclear and other safe nuclear previously covered by NBF- Solar Windows on all large buildings. A company called Solar Windows says up to 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of electricity can be generated by replacing all normal windows with equally transparent Solar Windows(tm).- Increased R&D towards more efficient Solar (currently only ~20{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} efficient) battery technology (must have for all renewables when sun/wind not available).

  21. You comment was “house build on permafrost” I then assumed you talked about houses getting damaged, this was very common before the problems of building on permafrost was understood. No talk about decaying plant matter until this post and yes its an issue. Spreading deserts, predictions say weather will be wetter and wilder. More rain and storm does not imply increased deserts, again weather pattern changes is unknown as I pointed out and you might get an growth of some but the overall effect should be less. And there is your sources, none of your posts contains links? And hold your horses, I confirmed global warming was an real effect and that it would probably be serious effects. However anybody not chanting the dogma is an heretic in the AGW cult. Pretty much the point of another article here, if AGW is an essential threat you grasp nuclear power and ignore the fallout. But no you campaign against windmills as they kill birds. And yes we have very good data for 30 years since the global warming discussion started. We also have the 30 year old predictions 🙂

  22. Your missing the point on permafrost. If it melts and the plant matter decays the 15 feet deep out gassing will double the amount of global warming gases. Your are right genius deserts do not contribute to to food and that is exactly why the world is trying to stop them EXPANDING. Your mixing up warm periods with extreme warm periods! You need to sharpen your crayons a little more as you wax on about how agricultural will be affected. You make grandiose pronouncements without any evidence to back up your assertions. WHERE ARE YOU SOURCES??? Put up or shut up

  23. Tommy boy where are you getting your facts> Come on list your sources. How about you list just one reputable scientific source in the entire world that agrees with you BS. What Physics? What does Geology have to do with it? Exactly what archeology? And pray tell us where you get your “ACTUAL” meteorological measurements? Are actual the same as valid or from valid sources? Are actual the same as real? Or are actual the pretend numbers made up by well financed disinformation web sites funded by the oil industry?

  24. Yep it is all a conspiracy. That is how the Glaciers are melting in Alaska and the huge droughts are occurring world wide and the unprecedented strength of the hurricanes. Also the accelerated fragmenting of the Antarctic glaciers and the Arctic ice melt and the accelerated Greenland melting. It is all a conspiracy to control the world. Are you for real? Do you ever listen to the BS coming out of your mouths? Do you ever try and apply logic to you thinking process? Do you really think that getting out of this mess is going to get done without the world cooperating to stop global warming? Now go back to you alt right conspiracy sites and get another brain shampoo.

  25. You comment was house build on permafrost”” I then assumed you talked about houses getting damaged”” this was very common before the problems of building on permafrost was understood. No talk about decaying plant matter until this post and yes its an issue.Spreading deserts predictions say weather will be wetter and wilder. More rain and storm does not imply increased deserts again weather pattern changes is unknown as I pointed out and you might get an growth of some but the overall effect should be less. And there is your sources none of your posts contains links? And hold your horses I confirmed global warming was an real effect and that it would probably be serious effects. However anybody not chanting the dogma is an heretic in the AGW cult. Pretty much the point of another article here”” if AGW is an essential threat you grasp nuclear power and ignore the fallout. But no you campaign against windmills as they kill birds. And yes we have very good data for 30 years since the global warming discussion started. We also have the 30 year old predictions :)”””

  26. Your missing the point on permafrost. If it melts and the plant matter decays the 15 feet deep out gassing will double the amount of global warming gases. Your are right genius deserts do not contribute to to food and that is exactly why the world is trying to stop them EXPANDING. Your mixing up warm periods with extreme warm periods!You need to sharpen your crayons a little more as you wax on about how agricultural will be affected. You make grandiose pronouncements without any evidence to back up your assertions. WHERE ARE YOU SOURCES??? Put up or shut up

  27. Tommy boy where are you getting your facts> Come on list your sources. How about you list just one reputable scientific source in the entire world that agrees with you BS. What Physics? What does Geology have to do with it? Exactly what archeology? And pray tell us where you get your ACTUAL”” meteorological measurements? Are actual the same as valid or from valid sources? Are actual the same as real? Or are actual the pretend numbers made up by well financed disinformation web sites funded by the oil industry?”””

  28. Yep it is all a conspiracy. That is how the Glaciers are melting in Alaska and the huge droughts are occurring world wide and the unprecedented strength of the hurricanes. Also the accelerated fragmenting of the Antarctic glaciers and the Arctic ice melt and the accelerated Greenland melting. It is all a conspiracy to control the world. Are you for real? Do you ever listen to the BS coming out of your mouths? Do you ever try and apply logic to you thinking process? Do you really think that getting out of this mess is going to get done without the world cooperating to stop global warming? Now go back to you alt right conspiracy sites and get another brain shampoo.

  29. I have a cup of water at 20 degrees and a second cup of slush at zero degrees. The average temperature is 10 degrees. I mix them together and the temperature of the mix is zero degrees. The first temperature is calculated using climate “science”. The second is physical reality. My source is the kitchen sink and freezer. Now extend those measurements to Arctic temperatures and Sargasso sea temperatures and various land temperatures. Which science do you use?

  30. I have a cup of water at 20 degrees and a second cup of slush at zero degrees. The average temperature is 10 degrees. I mix them together and the temperature of the mix is zero degrees.The first temperature is calculated using climate science””. The second is physical reality. My source is the kitchen sink and freezer.Now extend those measurements to Arctic temperatures and Sargasso sea temperatures and various land temperatures. Which science do you use?”””

  31. The CO2 stream from existing fossil fuel plants can be captured and made into valuable products that pay for the capture system and make it self sustaining. A number of small companies are already making plastics from CO2. And the CO2 can be recycled into automotive fuels, which will reduce the overall amount of CO2 in the air. Those are solutions that will pay for themselves.

  32. The CO2 stream from existing fossil fuel plants can be captured and made into valuable products that pay for the capture system and make it self sustaining. A number of small companies are already making plastics from CO2. And the CO2 can be recycled into automotive fuels which will reduce the overall amount of CO2 in the air. Those are solutions that will pay for themselves.

  33. I kinda dig the idea of marine permaculture, as in the implementation of 3D vertical farms. But, will the offshore submerged frame idea work at depths suitable to avoid shipping though? Most of the Climate Foundation and Greenwave stuff shows much shallower stuff, and not true frames, mostly rope based systems in near-shore environments.

  34. I kinda dig the idea of marine permaculture as in the implementation of 3D vertical farms. But will the offshore submerged frame idea work at depths suitable to avoid shipping though? Most of the Climate Foundation and Greenwave stuff shows much shallower stuff and not true frames mostly rope based systems in near-shore environments.

  35. You are one of the fools that give the Watermelons in the Third World hope that their wealth transferring scam in the name of ‘saving the planet’ shall yet succeed.

  36. …I wouldn’t call the thugs from the Third World who dominate the UN Assembly as ‘well meaning members of the AGW cult’. They know it is all BS. They just want to latch onto Western stupidity on the issue to scam as much money as possible, in the process.

  37. What is the purpose of the UN IPCC climate reports when they have insane economics and do not provide any remotely reasonable action plans, goals or priorities?” That one is easy: To guilt-trip the føøls in the West to hand over their money to the hordes of third world nations that dominate in the UN General Assembly. Globalized Watermelonism. They don’t need a plan. In fact, the less details, the better. What they want is to push this nebulous ‘we must DO something!’ BS and rake as much dough out of that in the process. Ergo, the LAST thing these crooks want is an actual plan that does to do anything…especially something that doesn’t line their bank accounts.

  38. You are one of the fools that give the Watermelons in the Third World hope that their wealth transferring scam in the name of ‘saving the planet’ shall yet succeed.

  39. …I wouldn’t call the thugs from the Third World who dominate the UN Assembly as ‘well meaning members of the AGW cult’. They know it is all BS. They just want to latch onto Western stupidity on the issue to scam as much money as possible in the process.

  40. What is the purpose of the UN IPCC climate reports when they have insane economics and do not provide any remotely reasonable action plans” goals or priorities?””That one is easy: To guilt-trip the føøls in the West to hand over their money to the hordes of third world nations that dominate in the UN General Assembly. Globalized Watermelonism.They don’t need a plan. In fact”” the less details the better. What they want is to push this nebulous ‘we must DO something!’ BS and rake as much dough out of that in the process.Ergo”” the LAST thing these crooks want is an actual plan that does to do anything…especially something that doesn’t line their bank accounts.”””””””

  41. And there is your sources, none of your posts contains links? ” He’s just a troll. One of his tactics is to get you to waste your time Googling stuff he’s just going to rip in to anyway. “However anybody not chanting the dogma is an heretic in the AGW cult.” Yup. He’s the self-designated Torquemada enforcer on NBF for said AGW cult, too.

  42. If it melts and the plant matter decays the 15 feet deep out gassing will double the amount of global warming gases. ” Like that never happened in the past? Somehow, the world survived! Wow! “WHERE ARE YOU SOURCES??? ” Planet Reality. Now you STFU.

  43. …. we should wait until we are totally %$@#ed before we even try do anything! At least we will finally have proof that it is real, unlike now. ‘Consensus’ is not proof. It is politics.

  44. And there is your sources” none of your posts contains links? “”He’s just a troll. One of his tactics is to get you to waste your time Googling stuff he’s just going to rip in to anyway. “”””However anybody not chanting the dogma is an heretic in the AGW cult.””””Yup. He’s the self-designated Torquemada enforcer on NBF for said AGW cult”””” too.”””

  45. If it melts and the plant matter decays the 15 feet deep out gassing will double the amount of global warming gases. “”Like that never happened in the past? Somehow”””” the world survived! Wow!””””WHERE ARE YOU SOURCES??? “”””Planet Reality. Now you STFU.”””

  46. …. we should wait until we are totally {22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}$@#ed before we even try do anything! At least we will finally have proof that it is real unlike now. ‘Consensus’ is not proof. It is politics.

  47. Warren, you made that up. My point was that the excess money that the rich have does not all flow back into the economy, which is true. A lot of it is sent outside this country to tax havens. Banks also have to keep a 10% reserve so they can’t lend every dollar they have. Then a large amount of the loans banks make doesn’t necessarily result in work being done like most mortgages which are for homes already built. And a lot of it goes to fund speculation like buying stocks on margins. My point was that a larger percentage of poor people money flows back into the economy. than rich people money. You were the one with the Scrooge McDuck story.

  48. Warren you made that up. My point was that the excess money that the rich have does not all flow back into the economy which is true. A lot of it is sent outside this country to tax havens. Banks also have to keep a 10{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} reserve so they can’t lend every dollar they have. Then a large amount of the loans banks make doesn’t necessarily result in work being done like most mortgages which are for homes already built. And a lot of it goes to fund speculation like buying stocks on margins. My point was that a larger percentage of poor people money flows back into the economy. than rich people money. You were the one with the Scrooge McDuck story.

  49. Warren, you made that up. My point was that the excess money that the rich have does not all flow back into the economy, which is true. A lot of it is sent outside this country to tax havens. Banks also have to keep a 10% reserve so they can’t lend every dollar they have. Then a large amount of the loans banks make doesn’t necessarily result in work being done like most mortgages which are for homes already built. And a lot of it goes to fund speculation like buying stocks on margins. My point was that a larger percentage of poor people money flows back into the economy. than rich people money. You were the one with the Scrooge McDuck story.

  50. Warren you made that up. My point was that the excess money that the rich have does not all flow back into the economy which is true. A lot of it is sent outside this country to tax havens. Banks also have to keep a 10{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} reserve so they can’t lend every dollar they have. Then a large amount of the loans banks make doesn’t necessarily result in work being done like most mortgages which are for homes already built. And a lot of it goes to fund speculation like buying stocks on margins. My point was that a larger percentage of poor people money flows back into the economy. than rich people money. You were the one with the Scrooge McDuck story.

  51. And there is your sources, none of your posts contains links? ” He’s just a troll. One of his tactics is to get you to waste your time Googling stuff he’s just going to rip in to anyway. “However anybody not chanting the dogma is an heretic in the AGW cult.” Yup. He’s the self-designated Torquemada enforcer on NBF for said AGW cult, too.

  52. And there is your sources” none of your posts contains links? “”He’s just a troll. One of his tactics is to get you to waste your time Googling stuff he’s just going to rip in to anyway. “”””However anybody not chanting the dogma is an heretic in the AGW cult.””””Yup. He’s the self-designated Torquemada enforcer on NBF for said AGW cult”””” too.”””

  53. If it melts and the plant matter decays the 15 feet deep out gassing will double the amount of global warming gases. ” Like that never happened in the past? Somehow, the world survived! Wow! “WHERE ARE YOU SOURCES??? ” Planet Reality. Now you STFU.

  54. If it melts and the plant matter decays the 15 feet deep out gassing will double the amount of global warming gases. “”Like that never happened in the past? Somehow”””” the world survived! Wow!””””WHERE ARE YOU SOURCES??? “”””Planet Reality. Now you STFU.”””

  55. …. we should wait until we are totally %$@#ed before we even try do anything! At least we will finally have proof that it is real, unlike now. ‘Consensus’ is not proof. It is politics.

  56. …. we should wait until we are totally {22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}$@#ed before we even try do anything! At least we will finally have proof that it is real unlike now. ‘Consensus’ is not proof. It is politics.

  57. You are one of the fools that give the Watermelons in the Third World hope that their wealth transferring scam in the name of ‘saving the planet’ shall yet succeed.

  58. You are one of the fools that give the Watermelons in the Third World hope that their wealth transferring scam in the name of ‘saving the planet’ shall yet succeed.

  59. …I wouldn’t call the thugs from the Third World who dominate the UN Assembly as ‘well meaning members of the AGW cult’. They know it is all BS. They just want to latch onto Western stupidity on the issue to scam as much money as possible, in the process.

  60. …I wouldn’t call the thugs from the Third World who dominate the UN Assembly as ‘well meaning members of the AGW cult’. They know it is all BS. They just want to latch onto Western stupidity on the issue to scam as much money as possible in the process.

  61. What is the purpose of the UN IPCC climate reports when they have insane economics and do not provide any remotely reasonable action plans, goals or priorities?” That one is easy: To guilt-trip the føøls in the West to hand over their money to the hordes of third world nations that dominate in the UN General Assembly. Globalized Watermelonism. They don’t need a plan. In fact, the less details, the better. What they want is to push this nebulous ‘we must DO something!’ BS and rake as much dough out of that in the process. Ergo, the LAST thing these crooks want is an actual plan that does to do anything…especially something that doesn’t line their bank accounts.

  62. What is the purpose of the UN IPCC climate reports when they have insane economics and do not provide any remotely reasonable action plans” goals or priorities?””That one is easy: To guilt-trip the føøls in the West to hand over their money to the hordes of third world nations that dominate in the UN General Assembly. Globalized Watermelonism.They don’t need a plan. In fact”” the less details the better. What they want is to push this nebulous ‘we must DO something!’ BS and rake as much dough out of that in the process.Ergo”” the LAST thing these crooks want is an actual plan that does to do anything…especially something that doesn’t line their bank accounts.”””””””

  63. Warren, you made that up. My point was that the excess money that the rich have does not all flow back into the economy, which is true. A lot of it is sent outside this country to tax havens. Banks also have to keep a 10% reserve so they can’t lend every dollar they have. Then a large amount of the loans banks make doesn’t necessarily result in work being done like most mortgages which are for homes already built. And a lot of it goes to fund speculation like buying stocks on margins. My point was that a larger percentage of poor people money flows back into the economy. than rich people money. You were the one with the Scrooge McDuck story.

  64. “And there is your sources, none of your posts contains links? ”

    He’s just a troll. One of his tactics is to get you to waste your time Googling stuff he’s just going to rip in to anyway.

    “However anybody not chanting the dogma is an heretic in the AGW cult.”

    Yup. He’s the self-designated Torquemada enforcer on NBF for said AGW cult, too.

  65. “If it melts and the plant matter decays the 15 feet deep out gassing will double the amount of global warming gases. ”

    Like that never happened in the past? Somehow, the world survived! Wow!

    “WHERE ARE YOU SOURCES??? ”

    Planet Reality. Now you STFU.

  66. …. we should wait until we are totally %$@#ed before we even try do anything!

    At least we will finally have proof that it is real, unlike now.

    ‘Consensus’ is not proof. It is politics.

  67. You are one of the fools that give the Watermelons in the Third World hope that their wealth transferring scam in the name of ‘saving the planet’ shall yet succeed.

  68. …I wouldn’t call the thugs from the Third World who dominate the UN Assembly as ‘well meaning members of the AGW cult’. They know it is all BS. They just want to latch onto Western stupidity on the issue to scam as much money as possible, in the process.

  69. “What is the purpose of the UN IPCC climate reports when they have insane economics and do not provide any remotely reasonable action plans, goals or priorities?”

    That one is easy: To guilt-trip the føøls in the West to hand over their money to the hordes of third world nations that dominate in the UN General Assembly. Globalized Watermelonism.

    They don’t need a plan. In fact, the less details, the better. What they want is to push this nebulous ‘we must DO something!’ BS and rake as much dough out of that in the process.

    Ergo, the LAST thing these crooks want is an actual plan that does to do anything…especially something that doesn’t line their bank accounts.

  70. I kinda dig the idea of marine permaculture, as in the implementation of 3D vertical farms. But, will the offshore submerged frame idea work at depths suitable to avoid shipping though? Most of the Climate Foundation and Greenwave stuff shows much shallower stuff, and not true frames, mostly rope based systems in near-shore environments.

  71. I kinda dig the idea of marine permaculture as in the implementation of 3D vertical farms. But will the offshore submerged frame idea work at depths suitable to avoid shipping though? Most of the Climate Foundation and Greenwave stuff shows much shallower stuff and not true frames mostly rope based systems in near-shore environments.

  72. The CO2 stream from existing fossil fuel plants can be captured and made into valuable products that pay for the capture system and make it self sustaining. A number of small companies are already making plastics from CO2. And the CO2 can be recycled into automotive fuels, which will reduce the overall amount of CO2 in the air. Those are solutions that will pay for themselves.

  73. The CO2 stream from existing fossil fuel plants can be captured and made into valuable products that pay for the capture system and make it self sustaining. A number of small companies are already making plastics from CO2. And the CO2 can be recycled into automotive fuels which will reduce the overall amount of CO2 in the air. Those are solutions that will pay for themselves.

  74. I kinda dig the idea of marine permaculture, as in the implementation of 3D vertical farms. But, will the offshore submerged frame idea work at depths suitable to avoid shipping though? Most of the Climate Foundation and Greenwave stuff shows much shallower stuff, and not true frames, mostly rope based systems in near-shore environments.

  75. The CO2 stream from existing fossil fuel plants can be captured and made into valuable products that pay for the capture system and make it self sustaining. A number of small companies are already making plastics from CO2. And the CO2 can be recycled into automotive fuels, which will reduce the overall amount of CO2 in the air. Those are solutions that will pay for themselves.

  76. I have a cup of water at 20 degrees and a second cup of slush at zero degrees. The average temperature is 10 degrees. I mix them together and the temperature of the mix is zero degrees. The first temperature is calculated using climate “science”. The second is physical reality. My source is the kitchen sink and freezer. Now extend those measurements to Arctic temperatures and Sargasso sea temperatures and various land temperatures. Which science do you use?

  77. I have a cup of water at 20 degrees and a second cup of slush at zero degrees. The average temperature is 10 degrees. I mix them together and the temperature of the mix is zero degrees.The first temperature is calculated using climate science””. The second is physical reality. My source is the kitchen sink and freezer.Now extend those measurements to Arctic temperatures and Sargasso sea temperatures and various land temperatures. Which science do you use?”””

  78. You comment was “house build on permafrost” I then assumed you talked about houses getting damaged, this was very common before the problems of building on permafrost was understood. No talk about decaying plant matter until this post and yes its an issue. Spreading deserts, predictions say weather will be wetter and wilder. More rain and storm does not imply increased deserts, again weather pattern changes is unknown as I pointed out and you might get an growth of some but the overall effect should be less. And there is your sources, none of your posts contains links? And hold your horses, I confirmed global warming was an real effect and that it would probably be serious effects. However anybody not chanting the dogma is an heretic in the AGW cult. Pretty much the point of another article here, if AGW is an essential threat you grasp nuclear power and ignore the fallout. But no you campaign against windmills as they kill birds. And yes we have very good data for 30 years since the global warming discussion started. We also have the 30 year old predictions 🙂

  79. You comment was house build on permafrost”” I then assumed you talked about houses getting damaged”” this was very common before the problems of building on permafrost was understood. No talk about decaying plant matter until this post and yes its an issue.Spreading deserts predictions say weather will be wetter and wilder. More rain and storm does not imply increased deserts again weather pattern changes is unknown as I pointed out and you might get an growth of some but the overall effect should be less. And there is your sources none of your posts contains links? And hold your horses I confirmed global warming was an real effect and that it would probably be serious effects. However anybody not chanting the dogma is an heretic in the AGW cult. Pretty much the point of another article here”” if AGW is an essential threat you grasp nuclear power and ignore the fallout. But no you campaign against windmills as they kill birds. And yes we have very good data for 30 years since the global warming discussion started. We also have the 30 year old predictions :)”””

  80. Your missing the point on permafrost. If it melts and the plant matter decays the 15 feet deep out gassing will double the amount of global warming gases. Your are right genius deserts do not contribute to to food and that is exactly why the world is trying to stop them EXPANDING. Your mixing up warm periods with extreme warm periods! You need to sharpen your crayons a little more as you wax on about how agricultural will be affected. You make grandiose pronouncements without any evidence to back up your assertions. WHERE ARE YOU SOURCES??? Put up or shut up

  81. Your missing the point on permafrost. If it melts and the plant matter decays the 15 feet deep out gassing will double the amount of global warming gases. Your are right genius deserts do not contribute to to food and that is exactly why the world is trying to stop them EXPANDING. Your mixing up warm periods with extreme warm periods!You need to sharpen your crayons a little more as you wax on about how agricultural will be affected. You make grandiose pronouncements without any evidence to back up your assertions. WHERE ARE YOU SOURCES??? Put up or shut up

  82. Tommy boy where are you getting your facts> Come on list your sources. How about you list just one reputable scientific source in the entire world that agrees with you BS. What Physics? What does Geology have to do with it? Exactly what archeology? And pray tell us where you get your “ACTUAL” meteorological measurements? Are actual the same as valid or from valid sources? Are actual the same as real? Or are actual the pretend numbers made up by well financed disinformation web sites funded by the oil industry?

  83. Tommy boy where are you getting your facts> Come on list your sources. How about you list just one reputable scientific source in the entire world that agrees with you BS. What Physics? What does Geology have to do with it? Exactly what archeology? And pray tell us where you get your ACTUAL”” meteorological measurements? Are actual the same as valid or from valid sources? Are actual the same as real? Or are actual the pretend numbers made up by well financed disinformation web sites funded by the oil industry?”””

  84. Yep it is all a conspiracy. That is how the Glaciers are melting in Alaska and the huge droughts are occurring world wide and the unprecedented strength of the hurricanes. Also the accelerated fragmenting of the Antarctic glaciers and the Arctic ice melt and the accelerated Greenland melting. It is all a conspiracy to control the world. Are you for real? Do you ever listen to the BS coming out of your mouths? Do you ever try and apply logic to you thinking process? Do you really think that getting out of this mess is going to get done without the world cooperating to stop global warming? Now go back to you alt right conspiracy sites and get another brain shampoo.

  85. Yep it is all a conspiracy. That is how the Glaciers are melting in Alaska and the huge droughts are occurring world wide and the unprecedented strength of the hurricanes. Also the accelerated fragmenting of the Antarctic glaciers and the Arctic ice melt and the accelerated Greenland melting. It is all a conspiracy to control the world. Are you for real? Do you ever listen to the BS coming out of your mouths? Do you ever try and apply logic to you thinking process? Do you really think that getting out of this mess is going to get done without the world cooperating to stop global warming? Now go back to you alt right conspiracy sites and get another brain shampoo.

  86. I have a cup of water at 20 degrees and a second cup of slush at zero degrees. The average temperature is 10 degrees. I mix them together and the temperature of the mix is zero degrees.
    The first temperature is calculated using climate “science”. The second is physical reality. My source is the kitchen sink and freezer.
    Now extend those measurements to Arctic temperatures and Sargasso sea temperatures and various land temperatures. Which science do you use?

  87. The only other major things I wish the article had covered were: 1. Tax Shifts: entirely off of Profits, Building, Sales, and Wages and onto: Pollution – including Carbon, Land/Air/Water; Extractive actions, e.g. Severance taxes for oil/gas and coal; Site Values, to discourage hoarding and inefficient building. This tax shift from goods to Bads will be enough because we can make it be enough by simply deciding to collect the same in taxes from the latter. This will be an equally powerful incentive to produce and innovate as it would be to reduce pollution and resource and land use. 2. More about how growing seaweed (kelp?) can eliminate 97% of cattle methane when mixed with feed. This was already shown in a previous NBF article. 3. Enhanced technological pushes for: – Thorium nuclear and other safe nuclear previously covered by NBF – Solar Windows on all large buildings. A company called Solar Windows says up to 50% of electricity can be generated by replacing all normal windows with equally transparent Solar Windows(tm). – Increased R&D towards more efficient Solar (currently only ~20% efficient), battery technology (must have for all renewables when sun/wind not available).

  88. The only other major things I wish the article had covered were:1. Tax Shifts: entirely off of Profits Building Sales and Wages and onto: Pollution – including Carbon Land/Air/Water; Extractive actions e.g. Severance taxes for oil/gas and coal; Site Values to discourage hoarding and inefficient building. This tax shift from goods to Bads will be enough because we can make it be enough by simply deciding to collect the same in taxes from the latter. This will be an equally powerful incentive to produce and innovate as it would be to reduce pollution and resource and land use.2. More about how growing seaweed (kelp?) can eliminate 97{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of cattle methane when mixed with feed. This was already shown in a previous NBF article.3. Enhanced technological pushes for:- Thorium nuclear and other safe nuclear previously covered by NBF- Solar Windows on all large buildings. A company called Solar Windows says up to 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of electricity can be generated by replacing all normal windows with equally transparent Solar Windows(tm).- Increased R&D towards more efficient Solar (currently only ~20{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} efficient) battery technology (must have for all renewables when sun/wind not available).

  89. You comment was “house build on permafrost” I then assumed you talked about houses getting damaged, this was very common before the problems of building on permafrost was understood.
    No talk about decaying plant matter until this post and yes its an issue.

    Spreading deserts, predictions say weather will be wetter and wilder. More rain and storm does not imply increased deserts, again weather pattern changes is unknown as I pointed out and you might get an growth of some but the overall effect should be less.

    And there is your sources, none of your posts contains links?

    And hold your horses, I confirmed global warming was an real effect and that it would probably be serious effects.

    However anybody not chanting the dogma is an heretic in the AGW cult.
    Pretty much the point of another article here, if AGW is an essential threat you grasp nuclear power and ignore the fallout. But no you campaign against windmills as they kill birds.

    And yes we have very good data for 30 years since the global warming discussion started.
    We also have the 30 year old predictions 🙂

  90. Your missing the point on permafrost. If it melts and the plant matter decays the 15 feet deep out gassing will double the amount of global warming gases.

    Your are right genius deserts do not contribute to to food and that is exactly why the world is trying to stop them EXPANDING.

    Your mixing up warm periods with extreme warm periods!
    You need to sharpen your crayons a little more as you wax on about how agricultural will be affected. You make grandiose pronouncements without any evidence to back up your assertions.

    WHERE ARE YOU SOURCES??? Put up or shut up

  91. Tommy boy where are you getting your facts> Come on list your sources. How about you list just one reputable scientific source in the entire world that agrees with you BS. What Physics? What does Geology have to do with it? Exactly what archeology? And pray tell us where you get your “ACTUAL” meteorological measurements? Are actual the same as valid or from valid sources? Are actual the same as real? Or are actual the pretend numbers made up by well financed disinformation web sites funded by the oil industry?

  92. Yep it is all a conspiracy. That is how the Glaciers are melting in Alaska and the huge droughts are occurring world wide and the unprecedented strength of the hurricanes. Also the accelerated fragmenting of the Antarctic glaciers and the Arctic ice melt and the accelerated Greenland melting. It is all a conspiracy to control the world. Are you for real? Do you ever listen to the BS coming out of your mouths? Do you ever try and apply logic to you thinking process?

    Do you really think that getting out of this mess is going to get done without the world cooperating to stop global warming? Now go back to you alt right conspiracy sites and get another brain shampoo.

  93. What is the purpose of the UN IPCC climate reports when they have insane economics and do not provide any remotely reasonable action plans, goals or priorities?

  94. What is the purpose of the UN IPCC climate reports when they have insane economics and do not provide any remotely reasonable action plans” goals or priorities? “” “””

  95. You’re already ignoring all of physics, geology, archeology, the actual meteorological measurements actually taken to conclude there is any validity to the AGW concept. Why not deny recorded reality a little more?

  96. You’re already ignoring all of physics geology archeology the actual meteorological measurements actually taken to conclude there is any validity to the AGW concept. Why not deny recorded reality a little more?

  97. The UN IPCC is a political organization designed (now) to give cover to those with totalitarian instincts. It allows hem to proceed based on a (consensus-based) belief that they are forces for good. No matter how many must suffer privation because of their policies.

  98. The UN IPCC is a political organization designed (now) to give cover to those with totalitarian instincts. It allows hem to proceed based on a (consensus-based) belief that they are forces for good. No matter how many must suffer privation because of their policies.

  99. Very few people live on permafrost. Deserts don’t contribute much to agriculture. However historical he is very correct, warm periods had high population growth, cold periods==winter is coming, famines and wars. Add that more CO2 in atmosphere give more plant growth, this is an noticeable effect and negate around 25% of co2 emissions. Yes its likely to be serious problems because of climate changes, mostly weather changes perhaps growing conditions of plants, As US and Australia is main agriculture exporters changes who hit them will probably affect food supply. Other areas might not be able to match them. On the other hand agriculture in lots of the 3rd world is very inefficient.

  100. Very few people live on permafrost. Deserts don’t contribute much to agriculture. However historical he is very correct warm periods had high population growth cold periods==winter is coming famines and wars. Add that more CO2 in atmosphere give more plant growth this is an noticeable effect and negate around 25{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of co2 emissions. Yes its likely to be serious problems because of climate changes mostly weather changes perhaps growing conditions of plants As US and Australia is main agriculture exporters changes who hit them will probably affect food supply. Other areas might not be able to match them. On the other hand agriculture in lots of the 3rd world is very inefficient.

  101. This is insane. People don’t understand that you have to invest money whether or not you go renewable or you stay with fossil fuel. You have to explore for new fossil fuel, you have to drill and you have to extract. It costs money. You have to build, refurbish, and maintenance coal power plants. Renewable will be cheaper in the long run, much cheaper than fossil fuel.

  102. This is insane. People don’t understand that you have to invest money whether or not you go renewable or you stay with fossil fuel. You have to explore for new fossil fuel you have to drill and you have to extract. It costs money. You have to build refurbish and maintenance coal power plants. Renewable will be cheaper in the long run much cheaper than fossil fuel.

  103. Your are right Tom, we should wait until we are totally %$@#ed before we even try do anything! 😉 😉 😉 For starters warmer isn’t better if you live in or near a desert. 😉 Warmer is also not all that great if your house is built on permafrost either. 🙂

  104. Your are right Tom we should wait until we are totally {22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}$@#ed before we even try do anything! 😉 😉 ;-)For starters warmer isn’t better if you live in or near a desert. 😉 Warmer is also not all that great if your house is built on permafrost either. 🙂

  105. The purpose is to justify the imposition of a world-wide command economy. You should have figured that out decades ago.

  106. The purpose is to justify the imposition of a world-wide command economy. You should have figured that out decades ago.

  107. The only other major things I wish the article had covered were:

    1. Tax Shifts: entirely off of Profits, Building, Sales, and Wages and onto: Pollution – including Carbon, Land/Air/Water; Extractive actions, e.g. Severance taxes for oil/gas and coal; Site Values, to discourage hoarding and inefficient building. This tax shift from goods to Bads will be enough because we can make it be enough by simply deciding to collect the same in taxes from the latter. This will be an equally powerful incentive to produce and innovate as it would be to reduce pollution and resource and land use.
    2. More about how growing seaweed (kelp?) can eliminate 97% of cattle methane when mixed with feed. This was already shown in a previous NBF article.
    3. Enhanced technological pushes for:

    – Thorium nuclear and other safe nuclear previously covered by NBF

    – Solar Windows on all large buildings. A company called Solar Windows says up to 50% of electricity can be generated by replacing all normal windows with equally transparent Solar Windows(tm).

    – Increased R&D towards more efficient Solar (currently only ~20% efficient), battery technology (must have for all renewables when sun/wind not available).

  108. Ha, no nuclear power, no iron fertilization, no actual solutions but political power grabs by the well-meaning members of the AGW cult, imposing taxation, economic and freedom restrictions mostly over the west and the USA. The Emperor really has no clothes! The purely politically motivated, anti-capitalistic, anti-west in general, anti-USA in particular agenda of the global warming movement is open for everyone to see.

  109. Ha no nuclear power no iron fertilization no actual solutions but political power grabs by the well-meaning members of the AGW cult imposing taxation economic and freedom restrictions mostly over the west and the USA. The Emperor really has no clothes!The purely politically motivated anti-capitalistic anti-west in general anti-USA in particular agenda of the global warming movement is open for everyone to see.

  110. On top of everything else, can we bother proving 1.5 degrees warmer is a problem? Because throughout human history, warmer has been better.

  111. On top of everything else can we bother proving 1.5 degrees warmer is a problem? Because throughout human history warmer has been better.

  112. ” What is the purpose of the UN IPCC climate reports when they have insane economics and do not provide any remotely reasonable action plans, goals or priorities? ” <-- The purpose is accruing unaccountable political power to people who could not come to exercise it any other way. IOW, there's more graft in it that way. There's no more to it.

  113. You’re already ignoring all of physics, geology, archeology, the actual meteorological measurements actually taken to conclude there is any validity to the AGW concept. Why not deny recorded reality a little more?

  114. The UN IPCC is a political organization designed (now) to give cover to those with totalitarian instincts. It allows hem to proceed based on a (consensus-based) belief that they are forces for good. No matter how many must suffer privation because of their policies.

  115. Very few people live on permafrost.
    Deserts don’t contribute much to agriculture.

    However historical he is very correct, warm periods had high population growth, cold periods==winter is coming, famines and wars. Add that more CO2 in atmosphere give more plant growth, this is an noticeable effect and negate around 25% of co2 emissions.

    Yes its likely to be serious problems because of climate changes, mostly weather changes perhaps growing conditions of plants, As US and Australia is main agriculture exporters changes who hit them will probably affect food supply. Other areas might not be able to match them.
    On the other hand agriculture in lots of the 3rd world is very inefficient.

  116. This is insane. People don’t understand that you have to invest money whether or not you go renewable or you stay with fossil fuel. You have to explore for new fossil fuel, you have to drill and you have to extract. It costs money. You have to build, refurbish, and maintenance coal power plants. Renewable will be cheaper in the long run, much cheaper than fossil fuel.

  117. Your are right Tom, we should wait until we are totally %$@#ed before we even try do anything! 😉 😉 😉

    For starters warmer isn’t better if you live in or near a desert. 😉 Warmer is also not all that great if your house is built on permafrost either. 🙂

  118. Ha, no nuclear power, no iron fertilization, no actual solutions but political power grabs by the well-meaning members of the AGW cult, imposing taxation, economic and freedom restrictions mostly over the west and the USA. The Emperor really has no clothes!

    The purely politically motivated, anti-capitalistic, anti-west in general, anti-USA in particular agenda of the global warming movement is open for everyone to see.

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