Here is a list of the largest consumer markets in 2017.
Overall world consumer spending is at about $44 trillion.
Country HFCE (millions of USD, nominal) % of GDP Year United States 12,820,694 69% 2016 European Union 9,613,986 56% 2017 China 4,697,723 38% 2017 Japan 2,756,598 56% 2016 Germany 1,952,625 53% 2017 United Kingdom 1,724,051 66% 2017 India 1,528,691 59% 2017 France 1,396,436 54% 2017 Brazil 1,303,885 63% 2017
Brian Wang is a Futurist Thought Leader and a popular Science blogger with 1 million readers per month. His blog Nextbigfuture.com is ranked #1 Science News Blog. It covers many disruptive technology and trends including Space, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, Medicine, Anti-aging Biotechnology, and Nanotechnology.
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I agree with you that a statistics that capture the overall physical health, mental health, financial health, and satisfaction of the people would be a good indicator. I think it should be coupled with strong negatives for people who are suffering. It isn’t good for people to suffer.
I agree with you that a statistics that capture the overall physical health mental health financial health and satisfaction of the people would be a good indicator. I think it should be coupled with strong negatives for people who are suffering. It isn’t good for people to suffer.
You insult me but you don’t do a good job proving your points.
You insult me but you don’t do a good job proving your points.
I agree with you that a statistics that capture the overall physical health, mental health, financial health, and satisfaction of the people would be a good indicator. I think it should be coupled with strong negatives for people who are suffering. It isn’t good for people to suffer.
I agree with you that a statistics that capture the overall physical health mental health financial health and satisfaction of the people would be a good indicator. I think it should be coupled with strong negatives for people who are suffering. It isn’t good for people to suffer.
I agree with you that a statistics that capture the overall physical health, mental health, financial health, and satisfaction of the people would be a good indicator.
I think it should be coupled with strong negatives for people who are suffering. It isn’t good for people to suffer.
You insult me but you don’t do a good job proving your points.
You insult me but you don’t do a good job proving your points.
You insult me but you don’t do a good job proving your points.
yeah, I know how the gas tax is collected, just an illustration. I think the GDP formula is way too blunt and vague because it doesn’t measure what actually happens in the economy or it’s value. Volumes and volumes of literature has been written about how and what to measure. I say keep GDP but lay off the fetish and absolutely don’t make policy around it. GDP captures broad strokes and wide variances of the mean. For example, it households cut spending on stuff by 50%, GDP will capture this movement. The rest is noise. Also GDP is the past based on economic decisions made about 9-12 months ago. GDP says nothing about the health of the population, or the quality of the air, or how well kids are doing in school, or if the money we earn is being well-spent. The latter, if you want an “economic” indicator, is hard to pin down. I rather look at a few half dozen numbers on a scorecard and find a conclusion, for instance – Household debt/disposable and corporate debt, and (government) (if anything, our economy today is completely credit-driven, and level of debt is the main driver of the economy) – cancer and other illness rates – production value at source (eg oil extraction, commodities, manufacturing) and investment – government deficit/ household – some kind of happiness/satisfaction index Then I would look at some types of forward looking measures. E.g., add up all future investment plans from a few thousand companies. But I am afraid people like sound bite economics and want “a number”, even if it’s “wrong”.
yeah I know how the gas tax is collected just an illustration.I think the GDP formula is way too blunt and vague because it doesn’t measure what actually happens in the economy or it’s value. Volumes and volumes of literature has been written about how and what to measure. I say keep GDP but lay off the fetish and absolutely don’t make policy around it. GDP captures broad strokes and wide variances of the mean. For example it households cut spending on stuff by 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} GDP will capture this movement. The rest is noise. Also GDP is the past based on economic decisions made about 9-12 months ago.GDP says nothing about the health of the population or the quality of the air or how well kids are doing in school or if the money we earn is being well-spent. The latter if you want an economic”” indicator”” is hard to pin down. I rather look at a few half dozen numbers on a scorecard and find a conclusion for instance- Household debt/disposable and corporate debt and (government)(if anything our economy today is completely credit-driven and level of debt is the main driver of the economy)- cancer and other illness rates- production value at source (eg oil extraction commodities manufacturing) and investment- government deficit/ household- some kind of happiness/satisfaction indexThen I would look at some types of forward looking measures. E.g.”” add up all future investment plans from a few thousand companies. But I am afraid people like sound bite economics and want “”””a number”””””””” even if it’s “”””wrong””””.”””
Unless they’re non-durable goods to which they just throw them away and write them off, but still counted as part of the GDP. 🙂
Unless they’re non-durable goods to which they just throw them away and write them off but still counted as part of the GDP. 🙂
yeah, I know how the gas tax is collected, just an illustration.
I think the GDP formula is way too blunt and vague because it doesn’t measure what actually happens in the economy or it’s value. Volumes and volumes of literature has been written about how and what to measure. I say keep GDP but lay off the fetish and absolutely don’t make policy around it. GDP captures broad strokes and wide variances of the mean. For example, it households cut spending on stuff by 50%, GDP will capture this movement. The rest is noise. Also GDP is the past based on economic decisions made about 9-12 months ago.
GDP says nothing about the health of the population, or the quality of the air, or how well kids are doing in school, or if the money we earn is being well-spent. The latter, if you want an “economic” indicator, is hard to pin down. I rather look at a few half dozen numbers on a scorecard and find a conclusion, for instance
– Household debt/disposable and corporate debt, and (government)
(if anything, our economy today is completely credit-driven, and level of debt is the main driver of the economy)
– cancer and other illness rates
– production value at source (eg oil extraction, commodities, manufacturing) and investment
– government deficit/ household
– some kind of happiness/satisfaction index
Then I would look at some types of forward looking measures. E.g., add up all future investment plans from a few thousand companies. But I am afraid people like sound bite economics and want “a number”, even if it’s “wrong”.
How do you think it should be calculated? Do note that the IRS folks don’t actually collect the gas tax. The money is usually transfer electronically to the IRS and the transactional cost to do so is small. You could have argue that all services provided by the government is worthless and therefore shouldn’t be counted as part of the GDP. But is that really true? Life could get a bit precarious without National Defense to protect us.
How do you think it should be calculated? Do note that the IRS folks don’t actually collect the gas tax. The money is usually transfer electronically to the IRS and the transactional cost to do so is small. You could have argue that all services provided by the government is worthless and therefore shouldn’t be counted as part of the GDP. But is that really true? Life could get a bit precarious without National Defense to protect us.
Rarely happens so it is not much a factor. Usually if they have a problem selling it they just the price until it sells.
Rarely happens so it is not much a factor. Usually if they have a problem selling it they just the price until it sells.
Instead of whining about “Keynesianism is BS”, why don’t you just state, in detail, what you think is wrong about Keynes’ “General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money”, which is the work that lays out the tenets of what is now known as “Keynesianism” and why.” Why should I? It is like asking me to waste my time describing to you why the sky is colored blue. Besides, Keynesiantardism’s rampant and recurring failures more than speak for themselves w/o any help from me. “And, thankfully, since we are on Vukle, rather than Discus, the trashing of my account that you or one of your fans did on Discus is (hopefully) not possible, so maybe you’ll answer me instead.” Translation: On Vuukle, you get to lie about me trashing your accounts while arrogantly at the same time pretending that I owe you anything for the total BS you post.
Instead of whining about “”Keynesianism is BS”””””” why don’t you just state in detail”” what you think is wrong about Keynes’ “”””General Theory of Employment”” Interest”” and Money”””””””” which is the work that lays out the tenets of what is now known as “”””Keynesianism”””” and why.””””Why should I? It is like asking me to waste my time describing to you why the sky is colored blue. Besides”””” Keynesiantardism’s rampant and recurring failures more than speak for themselves w/o any help from me.””””And”” thankfully since we are on Vukle rather than Discus the trashing of my account that you or one of your fans did on Discus is (hopefully) not possible”” so maybe you’ll answer me instead.””””Translation: On Vuukle”””” you get to lie about me trashing your accounts while arrogantly at the same time pretending that I owe you anything for the total BS you post.”””
I am thinking that you don’t really know anything about either theories” Hahahahah! 1) that’s rich, coming from you. 2) I know far more than you do. “During the “Great Depression” the unemployment rate peaked at 25%” Yeah. Because government jacked up tax rates to horrible levels and then instituted all kinds of programs that prolonged the unemployment/depression. “Under Classical Economical Theory this would required that 25% of the population decided that they would prefer to starve than work.” Once gain, you mischaracterize Classical Economic Theory. Hence proving again that you don’t know what you are talking about.
I am thinking that you don’t really know anything about either theories””Hahahahah!1) that’s rich”””” coming from you.2) I know far more than you do.””””During the “”””Great Depression”””” the unemployment rate peaked at 25{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}””””Yeah. Because government jacked up tax rates to horrible levels and then instituted all kinds of programs that prolonged the unemployment/depression.””””Under Classical Economical Theory this would required that 25{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of the population decided that they would prefer to starve than work.””””Once gain”””” you mischaracterize Classical Economic Theory. Hence proving again that you don’t know what you are talking about.”””
Unless they’re non-durable goods to which they just throw them away and write them off, but still counted as part of the GDP. 🙂
How do you think it should be calculated?
Do note that the IRS folks don’t actually collect the gas tax. The money is usually transfer electronically to the IRS and the transactional cost to do so is small.
You could have argue that all services provided by the government is worthless and therefore shouldn’t be counted as part of the GDP. But is that really true? Life could get a bit precarious without National Defense to protect us.
Rarely happens so it is not much a factor. Usually if they have a problem selling it they just the price until it sells.
“Instead of whining about “Keynesianism is BS”, why don’t you just state, in detail, what you think is wrong about Keynes’ “General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money”, which is the work that lays out the tenets of what is now known as “Keynesianism” and why.”
Why should I? It is like asking me to waste my time describing to you why the sky is colored blue. Besides, Keynesiantardism’s rampant and recurring failures more than speak for themselves w/o any help from me.
“And, thankfully, since we are on Vukle, rather than Discus, the trashing of my account that you or one of your fans did on Discus is (hopefully) not possible, so maybe you’ll answer me instead.”
Translation: On Vuukle, you get to lie about me trashing your accounts while arrogantly at the same time pretending that I owe you anything for the total BS you post.
“I am thinking that you don’t really know anything about either theories”
Hahahahah!
1) that’s rich, coming from you.
2) I know far more than you do.
“During the “Great Depression” the unemployment rate peaked at 25%”
Yeah. Because government jacked up tax rates to horrible levels and then instituted all kinds of programs that prolonged the unemployment/depression.
“Under Classical Economical Theory this would required that 25% of the population decided that they would prefer to starve than work.”
Once gain, you mischaracterize Classical Economic Theory. Hence proving again that you don’t know what you are talking about.
I am thinking that you don’t really know anything about either theories. I can’t follow your logic. During the “Great Depression” the unemployment rate peaked at 25%. Under Classical Economical Theory this would required that 25% of the population decided that they would prefer to starve than work. And they were actually starving. The central tenet of the Austrian Economic School is that over-investment fueled by low interest rate is the reason for the economy to crash. It is weird that Republican justify what they do by saying it would spur investment. If you always predict a crash then you will eventually be right. But can you tell me how to fix it other than do nothing.
I am thinking that you don’t really know anything about either theories. I can’t follow your logic. During the Great Depression”” the unemployment rate peaked at 25{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12}. Under Classical Economical Theory this would required that 25{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of the population decided that they would prefer to starve than work. And they were actually starving. The central tenet of the Austrian Economic School is that over-investment fueled by low interest rate is the reason for the economy to crash. It is weird that Republican justify what they do by saying it would spur investment. If you always predict a crash then you will eventually be right. But can you tell me how to fix it other than do nothing.”””
No, thats not it. EU market is very closely well…united, and therefore once you get there-you can get to ANY member state economy with your product/service. However this is like NAFTA, only tighter, and each member is still independent soveriegn country whose market is still spearate from all others becuause to has its specifications. Its not eurocentrism or other bullshit, its just logical. EU markets form semi-entity that is consisting of interlocking markets. Yes, if you want to sell, you need to chosoe country and adapt to its quirks; but at the same time EU as a whole behaves to certain degree as one; because each economy in order to function trades and consumes goods and serivces produced in other EU country. Out of those the biggest ones,predictably, are the most important markets, whose domination allows you to easily jump to smaller ones, whereas the same is not necessairly true in reverse. Hence France, Germany or Italy are bieng counted separately, while EU as a whole still appears. If NAFTA/whatever now it is called would be more unified we would also see that US is being counted separately, becuase it would be the key part of the entire economic loop, dictating pace of economic exchange.
No thats not it. EU market is very closely well…united and therefore once you get there-you can get to ANY member state economy with your product/service. However this is like NAFTA only tighter and each member is still independent soveriegn country whose market is still spearate from all others becuause to has its specifications. Its not eurocentrism or other bullshit its just logical. EU markets form semi-entity that is consisting of interlocking markets. Yes if you want to sell you need to chosoe country and adapt to its quirks; but at the same time EU as a whole behaves to certain degree as one; because each economy in order to function trades and consumes goods and serivces produced in other EU country. Out of those the biggest onespredictably are the most important markets whose domination allows you to easily jump to smaller ones whereas the same is not necessairly true in reverse. Hence France Germany or Italy are bieng counted separately while EU as a whole still appears. If NAFTA/whatever now it is called would be more unified we would also see that US is being counted separately becuase it would be the key part of the entire economic loop dictating pace of economic exchange.
I am thinking that you don’t really know anything about either theories.
I can’t follow your logic. During the “Great Depression” the unemployment rate peaked at 25%. Under Classical Economical Theory this would required that 25% of the population decided that they would prefer to starve than work. And they were actually starving.
The central tenet of the Austrian Economic School is that over-investment fueled by low interest rate is the reason for the economy to crash. It is weird that Republican justify what they do by saying it would spur investment.
If you always predict a crash then you will eventually be right. But can you tell me how to fix it other than do nothing.
The Overlords of the EU didn’t mention to you that the UK and Germany is subservient to “Europe”? You ought to sign up for EU Re-education Camp. There are spots open in Brussels that can help clear up this fact.
The Overlords of the EU didn’t mention to you that the UK and Germany is subservient to Europe””? You ought to sign up for EU Re-education Camp. There are spots open in Brussels that can help clear up this fact.”””
I’ll take it, thanks. The dumb list from wiki is a dump from worldbank where the euroweenies have convinced all the alphabets UN, IMF, EBRD, IBRD, BIS etc that “EU” is an actual real country. Never mind that nine of the sovereign states in this trade zone don’t even use the common currency. Common tactic used by small states to try and buff up their image. OAU in Africa, ASEAN in the Pacific, GCC in the Gulf, Mercosur in Latam. All, btw, have demonstrated absolute zero value.
I’ll take it thanks. The dumb list from wiki is a dump from worldbank where the euroweenies have convinced all the alphabets UN IMF EBRD IBRD BIS etc that EU”” is an actual real country. Never mind that nine of the sovereign states in this trade zone don’t even use the common currency. Common tactic used by small states to try and buff up their image. OAU in Africa”” ASEAN in the Pacific GCC in the Gulf Mercosur in Latam. All btw”” have demonstrated absolute zero value.”””
GDP = C+G+I+NX. It counts the money you paid to fill your car at the pump, the amount of money the refinery invested to make the gas, the difference the refinery sold abroad and bought from abroad, and the salaries of the IRS folks who collect the gas tax. So the rest of the 30% is “private investment” and “government” with a smattering of net trade. An extremely blunt and misleading accounting if you ask me.
GDP = C+G+I+NX. It counts the money you paid to fill your car at the pump the amount of money the refinery invested to make the gas the difference the refinery sold abroad and bought from abroad and the salaries of the IRS folks who collect the gas tax. So the rest of the 30{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} is private investment”” and “”””government”””” with a smattering of net trade. An extremely blunt and misleading accounting if you ask me.”””
Edit- Looking through my records I noticed that it was on Solid Opinion, rather than Discus that my account was trashed, apologies to Discus for the slip-up.
Edit- Looking through my records I noticed that it was on Solid Opinion rather than Discus that my account was trashed apologies to Discus for the slip-up.
or thrown away/unused.
or thrown away/unused.
No, thats not it. EU market is very closely well…united, and therefore once you get there-you can get to ANY member state economy with your product/service. However this is like NAFTA, only tighter, and each member is still independent soveriegn country whose market is still spearate from all others becuause to has its specifications. Its not eurocentrism or other bullshit, its just logical. EU markets form semi-entity that is consisting of interlocking markets. Yes, if you want to sell, you need to chosoe country and adapt to its quirks; but at the same time EU as a whole behaves to certain degree as one; because each economy in order to function trades and consumes goods and serivces produced in other EU country. Out of those the biggest ones,predictably, are the most important markets, whose domination allows you to easily jump to smaller ones, whereas the same is not necessairly true in reverse. Hence France, Germany or Italy are bieng counted separately, while EU as a whole still appears. If NAFTA/whatever now it is called would be more unified we would also see that US is being counted separately, becuase it would be the key part of the entire economic loop, dictating pace of economic exchange.
As compared to economic theories that can’t predict anything and can’t guide you in making business decision.” Thank you for describing Keynesianism. Whereas the Austrian School of Economics as an excellent track record of its predictions of economic downturns panning out. “Classic economic theory said that unemployment was due to people refusing to work because the pay was too low.” And it is true. What planet are you on? “They thought people would prefer to watch their children starve to death than work for low wages. ” No, they did not. And by you stating that is what that phrase means only further exposes your gross ignorance of economics. “Instead of saying Keynesianism is BS pick” Why? Doesn’t change the fact that it IS BS. Just because you refuse to admit it doesn’t change that fact, either.
As compared to economic theories that can’t predict anything and can’t guide you in making business decision.””Thank you for describing Keynesianism.Whereas the Austrian School of Economics as an excellent track record of its predictions of economic downturns panning out.””””Classic economic theory said that unemployment was due to people refusing to work because the pay was too low.””””And it is true. What planet are you on?””””They thought people would prefer to watch their children starve to death than work for low wages. “”””No”””” they did not. And by you stating that is what that phrase means only further exposes your gross ignorance of economics.””””Instead of saying Keynesianism is BS pick””””Why? Doesn’t change the fact that it IS BS. Just because you refuse to admit it doesn’t change that fact”””” either.”””
In the end everything produced must be consumed or disposed of. So who is consuming that other 31% of the US GDP?
In the end everything produced must be consumed or disposed of. So who is consuming that other 31{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of the US GDP?
Really? As compared to economic theories that can’t predict anything and can’t guide you in making business decision. Classic economic theory said that unemployment was due to people refusing to work because the pay was too low. They thought people would prefer to watch their children starve to death than work for low wages. Instead of saying Keynesianism is BS pick something you like and tell me why you think it is better and what is the prove that it is better.
Really? As compared to economic theories that can’t predict anything and can’t guide you in making business decision. Classic economic theory said that unemployment was due to people refusing to work because the pay was too low. They thought people would prefer to watch their children starve to death than work for low wages. Instead of saying Keynesianism is BS pick something you like and tell me why you think it is better and what is the prove that it is better.
You forget that I sell the service of selling you the stuff. And that is a pretty big business just ask Amazon.
You forget that I sell the service of selling you the stuff. And that is a pretty big business just ask Amazon.
All things produced must be consumed.
All things produced must be consumed.
The Overlords of the EU didn’t mention to you that the UK and Germany is subservient to “Europe”? You ought to sign up for EU Re-education Camp. There are spots open in Brussels that can help clear up this fact.
I’ll take it, thanks. The dumb list from wiki is a dump from worldbank where the euroweenies have convinced all the alphabets UN, IMF, EBRD, IBRD, BIS etc that “EU” is an actual real country. Never mind that nine of the sovereign states in this trade zone don’t even use the common currency. Common tactic used by small states to try and buff up their image. OAU in Africa, ASEAN in the Pacific, GCC in the Gulf, Mercosur in Latam. All, btw, have demonstrated absolute zero value.
GDP = C+G+I+NX. It counts the money you paid to fill your car at the pump, the amount of money the refinery invested to make the gas, the difference the refinery sold abroad and bought from abroad, and the salaries of the IRS folks who collect the gas tax. So the rest of the 30% is “private investment” and “government” with a smattering of net trade. An extremely blunt and misleading accounting if you ask me.
Edit- Looking through my records I noticed that it was on Solid Opinion, rather than Discus that my account was trashed, apologies to Discus for the slip-up.
or thrown away/unused.
We are a service economy transforming to a experience based economy. Looking back to product economy wistfully is like saying were going to go back to the days of sears robuck and order some horseshoes. You dont need to actually produce to produce. Its called masturbation economics and its been pumping away since the gold standard disapeared. I dont sell products in america. I sell the service of installing, using, or being the product. In the future everything will be like disneyland.
We are a service economy transforming to a experience based economy. Looking back to product economy wistfully is like saying were going to go back to the days of sears robuck and order some horseshoes. You dont need to actually produce to produce. Its called masturbation economics and its been pumping away since the gold standard disapeared. I dont sell products in america. I sell the service of installing using or being the product. In the future everything will be like disneyland.
Individual state pride. Esp in light of brexit, trump, and nationalism in the zeitgeist.
Individual state pride. Esp in light of brexit trump and nationalism in the zeitgeist.
Yes. The 70% thing is all the stages of production counted at the point of sale. But over 2/3s of that is B2B activity embedded. That’s why Keynesianism is BS.
Yes. The 70{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} thing is all the stages of production counted at the point of sale. But over 2/3s of that is B2B activity embedded.That’s why Keynesianism is BS.
I know this something of a “pet peeve”, but seriously, if the statistician that put together the table deigns to include the European Union AND France, Germany and (ahem) UK in the same list, then why pray don’t we list the United States of America AND California, New York, Texas, Florida and Illinois” Because its all about the BS narrative, Goatguy. Only these days they make it totally obvious. Which is good as I am getting older. 🙂
I know this something of a “pet peeve” but seriously if the statistician that put together the table deigns to include the European Union AND France Germany and (ahem) UK in the same list then why pray don’t we list the United States of America AND California New York Texas” Florida and Illinois””Because its all about the BS narrative”””” Goatguy. Only these days they make it totally obvious. Which is good as I am getting older. :)”””””””
I know this something of a “pet peeve”, but seriously, if the statistician that put together the table deigns to include the European Union AND France, Germany and (ahem) UK in the same list, then why pray don’t we list the United States of America AND California, New York, Texas, Florida and Illinois? The first three are at least as large as the European Union’s largest so-called states: Germany, France and UK. Seriously! I’m tired of the eurocentrism, where Europe’s massive economic union gets counted on-par with the USA, … and then its individual states are listed due to the fiction of them remaining historically separate countries. Its called the European UNION for a reason, boys ‘n’ girls. (**• RANT OVER ***) GoatGuy
I know this something of a “pet peeve” but seriously if the statistician that put together the table deigns to include the European Union AND France Germany and (ahem) UK in the same list then why pray don’t we list the United States of America AND California New York Texas Florida and Illinois?The first three are at least as large as the European Union’s largest so-called states: Germany France and UK.Seriously! I’m tired of the eurocentrism where Europe’s massive economic union gets counted on-par with the USA … and then its individual states are listed due to the fiction of them remaining historically separate countries. Its called the European UNION for a reason boys ‘n’ girls.(**• RANT OVER ***)GoatGuy”
Again, at odds with my general goatish character, I find myself agreeing with your position. Dâhmn. GoatGuy
Again at odds with my general goatish character I find myself agreeing with your position. Dâhmn. GoatGuy”
“As compared to economic theories that can’t predict anything and can’t guide you in making business decision.”
Thank you for describing Keynesianism.
Whereas the Austrian School of Economics as an excellent track record of its predictions of economic downturns panning out.
“Classic economic theory said that unemployment was due to people refusing to work because the pay was too low.”
And it is true. What planet are you on?
“They thought people would prefer to watch their children starve to death than work for low wages. ”
No, they did not. And by you stating that is what that phrase means only further exposes your gross ignorance of economics.
“Instead of saying Keynesianism is BS pick”
Why? Doesn’t change the fact that it IS BS. Just because you refuse to admit it doesn’t change that fact, either.
In the end everything produced must be consumed or disposed of. So who is consuming that other 31% of the US GDP?
Really? As compared to economic theories that can’t predict anything and can’t guide you in making business decision. Classic economic theory said that unemployment was due to people refusing to work because the pay was too low. They thought people would prefer to watch their children starve to death than work for low wages.
Instead of saying Keynesianism is BS pick something you like and tell me why you think it is better and what is the prove that it is better.
You forget that I sell the service of selling you the stuff. And that is a pretty big business just ask Amazon.
All things produced must be consumed.
The size of the US consumer economy the “70% of GDP” is a myth. Somehow hard to get message across. The U.S. data (from BEA) includes healthcare spending by the government (e.g., Medicare/Medicaid) which is close to 20% of GDP. Then, a big part of “real” consumption is buying stuff produced abroad. Toss into this “consumption” made by non-profits, political parties etc and you get a murky soup of mystery meat. So we’ve got a numerator with “buying stuff by whoever wherever” over the denominator called “final sales of some stuff domestically whether it’s a car or holes in the ground”. Pure nonsense. So when you filter out all the nonsense and look at what “real consumers” buy and what is being produced, presto, the US economy is a PRODUCTION economy, not a consumer economy. Duh. All things consumed must be produced. I know, sounds elementary but even the most illustrious Ivy Nobel laureate seems to forget. To produce you need capital which comes from savings (investment). So to grow an economy you are having the cart pull the horse if you want people to spend more. Actually, you want to invest more to build stuff people then can buy.
The size of the US consumer economy the 70{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of GDP”” is a myth. Somehow hard to get message across. The U.S. data (from BEA) includes healthcare spending by the government (e.g.”” Medicare/Medicaid) which is close to 20{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of GDP. Then”” a big part of “”””real”””” consumption is buying stuff produced abroad. Toss into this “”””consumption”””” made by non-profits”””” political parties etc and you get a murky soup of mystery meat. So we’ve got a numerator with “”””buying stuff by whoever wherever”””” over the denominator called “”””final sales of some stuff domestically whether it’s a car or holes in the ground””””. Pure nonsense. So when you filter out all the nonsense and look at what “”””real consumers”””” buy and what is being produced”” presto the US economy is a PRODUCTION economy not a consumer economy. Duh.All things consumed must be produced. I know sounds elementary but even the most illustrious Ivy Nobel laureate seems to forget. To produce you need capital which comes from savings (investment). So to grow an economy you are having the cart pull the horse if you want people to spend more. Actually”” you want to invest more to build stuff people then can buy.”””
why arent germany and uk included in these figs in16 weare part of this block
why arent germany and uk included in these figs in16 weare part of this block
We are a service economy transforming to a experience based economy. Looking back to product economy wistfully is like saying were going to go back to the days of sears robuck and order some horseshoes. You dont need to actually produce to produce. Its called masturbation economics and its been pumping away since the gold standard disapeared. I dont sell products in america. I sell the service of installing, using, or being the product. In the future everything will be like disneyland.
Individual state pride. Esp in light of brexit, trump, and nationalism in the zeitgeist.
Yes. The 70% thing is all the stages of production counted at the point of sale. But over 2/3s of that is B2B activity embedded.
That’s why Keynesianism is BS.
“I know this something of a “pet peeve”, but seriously, if the statistician that put together the table deigns to include the European Union AND France, Germany and (ahem) UK in the same list, then why pray don’t we list the United States of America AND California, New York, Texas, Florida and Illinois”
Because its all about the BS narrative, Goatguy. Only these days they make it totally obvious. Which is good as I am getting older. 🙂
I know this something of a “pet peeve”, but seriously, if the statistician that put together the table deigns to include the European Union AND France, Germany and (ahem) UK in the same list, then why pray don’t we list the United States of America AND California, New York, Texas, Florida and Illinois?
The first three are at least as large as the European Union’s largest so-called states: Germany, France and UK.
Seriously! I’m tired of the eurocentrism, where Europe’s massive economic union gets counted on-par with the USA, … and then its individual states are listed due to the fiction of them remaining historically separate countries. Its called the European UNION for a reason, boys ‘n’ girls.
(**• RANT OVER ***)
GoatGuy
Again, at odds with my general goatish character, I find myself agreeing with your position. Dâhmn. GoatGuy
The size of the US consumer economy the “70% of GDP” is a myth. Somehow hard to get message across. The U.S. data (from BEA) includes healthcare spending by the government (e.g., Medicare/Medicaid) which is close to 20% of GDP. Then, a big part of “real” consumption is buying stuff produced abroad. Toss into this “consumption” made by non-profits, political parties etc and you get a murky soup of mystery meat.
So we’ve got a numerator with “buying stuff by whoever wherever” over the denominator called “final sales of some stuff domestically whether it’s a car or holes in the ground”. Pure nonsense. So when you filter out all the nonsense and look at what “real consumers” buy and what is being produced, presto, the US economy is a PRODUCTION economy, not a consumer economy. Duh.
All things consumed must be produced. I know, sounds elementary but even the most illustrious Ivy Nobel laureate seems to forget. To produce you need capital which comes from savings (investment). So to grow an economy you are having the cart pull the horse if you want people to spend more. Actually, you want to invest more to build stuff people then can buy.
why arent germany and uk included in these figs in16 weare part of this block
yeah, I know how the gas tax is collected, just an illustration. I think the GDP formula is way too blunt and vague because it doesn’t measure what actually happens in the economy or it’s value. Volumes and volumes of literature has been written about how and what to measure. I say keep GDP but lay off the fetish and absolutely don’t make policy around it. GDP captures broad strokes and wide variances of the mean. For example, it households cut spending on stuff by 50%, GDP will capture this movement. The rest is noise. Also GDP is the past based on economic decisions made about 9-12 months ago. GDP says nothing about the health of the population, or the quality of the air, or how well kids are doing in school, or if the money we earn is being well-spent. The latter, if you want an “economic” indicator, is hard to pin down. I rather look at a few half dozen numbers on a scorecard and find a conclusion, for instance – Household debt/disposable and corporate debt, and (government) (if anything, our economy today is completely credit-driven, and level of debt is the main driver of the economy) – cancer and other illness rates – production value at source (eg oil extraction, commodities, manufacturing) and investment – government deficit/ household – some kind of happiness/satisfaction index Then I would look at some types of forward looking measures. E.g., add up all future investment plans from a few thousand companies. But I am afraid people like sound bite economics and want “a number”, even if it’s “wrong”.
yeah I know how the gas tax is collected just an illustration.I think the GDP formula is way too blunt and vague because it doesn’t measure what actually happens in the economy or it’s value. Volumes and volumes of literature has been written about how and what to measure. I say keep GDP but lay off the fetish and absolutely don’t make policy around it. GDP captures broad strokes and wide variances of the mean. For example it households cut spending on stuff by 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} GDP will capture this movement. The rest is noise. Also GDP is the past based on economic decisions made about 9-12 months ago.GDP says nothing about the health of the population or the quality of the air or how well kids are doing in school or if the money we earn is being well-spent. The latter if you want an economic”” indicator”” is hard to pin down. I rather look at a few half dozen numbers on a scorecard and find a conclusion for instance- Household debt/disposable and corporate debt and (government)(if anything our economy today is completely credit-driven and level of debt is the main driver of the economy)- cancer and other illness rates- production value at source (eg oil extraction commodities manufacturing) and investment- government deficit/ household- some kind of happiness/satisfaction indexThen I would look at some types of forward looking measures. E.g.”” add up all future investment plans from a few thousand companies. But I am afraid people like sound bite economics and want “”””a number”””””””” even if it’s “”””wrong””””.”””
Unless they’re non-durable goods to which they just throw them away and write them off, but still counted as part of the GDP. 🙂
Unless they’re non-durable goods to which they just throw them away and write them off but still counted as part of the GDP. 🙂