Possible game changer in detection of submarines

China will try to use lasers, microwave radar and a lot of computation to detect submarines down to 500-meter depth.

Experiments carried out by the United States and former Soviet Union achieved maximum detection depths of less than 100 meters, according to openly available information. The detection depth has been extended in recent years by the US in research funded by Nasa and the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA). A device developed by DARPA, for example, was mounted on a spy plane and achieved reliable results at a depth of 200 meters, detecting targets as small as sea mines.

Light dims 1,000 times faster in water than in the air, and the sun can penetrate no more than 200 meters below the ocean surface, a powerful artificial laser beam can be 1 billion times brighter than the sun. Naval researchers have tried for more than half a century to develop a laser spotlight for hunting submarines using technology known as light detection and ranging (lidar).

The satellite is designed to generate high-power laser beam pulses in different colors, or frequencies, that allow sensitive receivers to pick up more information from various depths. Those laser beams can scan an area as wide as 100km, or concentrate on one spot just 1km wide.

It will be used in conjunction with a microwave radar, also mounted on the satellite, to better identify targets.

Although the radar cannot penetrate water, it can measure the surface movement with extremely high accuracy – so when a moving submarine creates small disturbances on the surface, for example, the radar will tell the satellite where to throw the laser beam.

The team is working to combine every available sensing method to achieve the maximum possible depth of detection.

In 2017, Chinese scientists claimed to have made a breakthrough in magnetic detection technology with a device that can monitor tiny disturbances in the Earth’s magnetic field caused by metallic objects such as submarines.

Researchers are also working on sensors using cutting-edge quantum technology to chase the gravitational abnormality that a submarine creates in a large body of water.

Powerful listening devices have also been planted in strategic seabeds near the American naval base in Guam and in the South China Sea, some of which can “hear” low-frequency sounds from more than 1,000km away.

In Qingdao, researchers are working on an exascale supercomputer called “Deep Blue Brain” that, when completed in 2020, aims to be the most powerful computer in the world.

The supercomputer will then use the masses of data along with artificial intelligence to recreate the world’s oceans, in unprecedented detail, in digital form. It will have a high-resolution virtual ocean.

75 thoughts on “Possible game changer in detection of submarines”

  1. Gravitational anomalies detectors can be easily fooled by the army of small drones creating a hundreds of emp pings, especially from “thousand of miles away”. Because of water’s high permittivity and electrical conductivity, these pings will propagate far enough to hide submarine’s location.. Of course, chinese can bomb entire Pacific Ocean, but they don’t need a super computer for that :)))

  2. Gravitational anomalies detectors can be easily fooled by the army of small drones creating a hundreds of emp pings especially from thousand of miles away””. Because of water’s high permittivity and electrical conductivity”” these pings will propagate far enough to hide submarine’s location.. Of course chinese can bomb entire Pacific Ocean”” but they don’t need a super computer for that :)))”””

  3. The weakness in your argument is that there is only 18 (relatively small number) and that were engaged in a nuclear war. what if non nuclear? The Navy and its billion dollar ships, it seems, are becomig more and more obsolete. Just as battleships did with the invention of the airplane.

  4. The weakness in your argument is that there is only 18 (relatively small number) and that were engaged in a nuclear war. what if non nuclear? The Navy and its billion dollar ships it seems are becomig more and more obsolete. Just as battleships did with the invention of the airplane.

  5. Once war begins Chinese subs at sea will learn within an hour that their home bases and home cities have been destroyed by US nuclear missiles. At that point, the Chinese sub commanders’ minds will be totally concentrated on how their stealth diesel subs are going to survive the trip back to their second or third option home ports. Forget about finding a US sub!

  6. Once war begins Chinese subs at sea will learn within an hour that their home bases and home cities have been destroyed by US nuclear missiles. At that point the Chinese sub commanders’ minds will be totally concentrated on how their stealth diesel subs are going to survive the trip back to their second or third option home ports. Forget about finding a US sub!

  7. Who says you have to wait until they’re firing before detecting them? Just track all of them, get your forces into position, and take them out.

  8. Who says you have to wait until they’re firing before detecting them? Just track all of them get your forces into position and take them out.

  9. Once war begins Chinese subs at sea will learn within an hour that their home bases and home cities have been destroyed by US nuclear missiles. At that point, the Chinese sub commanders’ minds will be totally concentrated on how their stealth diesel subs are going to survive the trip back to their second or third option home ports. Forget about finding a US sub!

  10. Once war begins Chinese subs at sea will learn within an hour that their home bases and home cities have been destroyed by US nuclear missiles. At that point the Chinese sub commanders’ minds will be totally concentrated on how their stealth diesel subs are going to survive the trip back to their second or third option home ports. Forget about finding a US sub!

  11. Once war begins Chinese subs at sea will learn within an hour that their home bases and home cities have been destroyed by US nuclear missiles. At that point, the Chinese sub commanders’ minds will be totally concentrated on how their stealth diesel subs are going to survive the trip back to their second or third option home ports. Forget about finding a US sub!

  12. The weakness in your argument is that there is only 18 (relatively small number) and that were engaged in a nuclear war. what if non nuclear? The Navy and its billion dollar ships, it seems, are becomig more and more obsolete. Just as battleships did with the invention of the airplane.

  13. The weakness in your argument is that there is only 18 (relatively small number) and that were engaged in a nuclear war. what if non nuclear? The Navy and its billion dollar ships it seems are becomig more and more obsolete. Just as battleships did with the invention of the airplane.

  14. The weakness in your argument is that there is only 18 (relatively small number) and that were engaged in a nuclear war. what if non nuclear? The Navy and its billion dollar ships, it seems, are becomig more and more obsolete. Just as battleships did with the invention of the airplane.

  15. Gravitational anomalies detectors can be easily fooled by the army of small drones creating a hundreds of emp pings, especially from “thousand of miles away”. Because of water’s high permittivity and electrical conductivity, these pings will propagate far enough to hide submarine’s location.. Of course, chinese can bomb entire Pacific Ocean, but they don’t need a super computer for that :)))

  16. Gravitational anomalies detectors can be easily fooled by the army of small drones creating a hundreds of emp pings especially from thousand of miles away””. Because of water’s high permittivity and electrical conductivity”” these pings will propagate far enough to hide submarine’s location.. Of course chinese can bomb entire Pacific Ocean”” but they don’t need a super computer for that :)))”””

  17. Gravitational anomalies detectors can be easily fooled by the army of small drones creating a hundreds of emp pings, especially from “thousand of miles away”. Because of water’s high permittivity and electrical conductivity, these pings will propagate far enough to hide submarine’s location.. Of course, chinese can bomb entire Pacific Ocean, but they don’t need a super computer for that :)))

  18. Who says you have to wait until they’re firing before detecting them? Just track all of them, get your forces into position, and take them out.

  19. Who says you have to wait until they’re firing before detecting them? Just track all of them get your forces into position and take them out.

  20. I was thinking about metamaterials that would bend blue light so that the reflection looks like noise but sure red paint too.

  21. I was thinking about metamaterials that would bend blue light so that the reflection looks like noise but sure red paint too.

  22. I was thinking about metamaterials that would bend blue light so that the reflection looks like noise but sure red paint too.

  23. I was thinking about metamaterials that would bend blue light so that the reflection looks like noise but sure red paint too.

  24. Even if China or Russia knows exactly where each and every sub is, there is nothing they can do to stop our ballistic subs from retaliating in the event of war. And good luck trying to chase down 18 subs firing 24 MIRVed missiles from locations all over the Earth. So yea, this tech might be a hassle for us, but the cornerstone of the importance of subs is still unchanged.

  25. Even if China or Russia knows exactly where each and every sub is there is nothing they can do to stop our ballistic subs from retaliating in the event of war. And good luck trying to chase down 18 subs firing 24 MIRVed missiles from locations all over the Earth. So yea this tech might be a hassle for us but the cornerstone of the importance of subs is still unchanged.

  26. Even if China or Russia knows exactly where each and every sub is, there is nothing they can do to stop our ballistic subs from retaliating in the event of war. And good luck trying to chase down 18 subs firing 24 MIRVed missiles from locations all over the Earth. So yea, this tech might be a hassle for us, but the cornerstone of the importance of subs is still unchanged.

  27. Even if China or Russia knows exactly where each and every sub is there is nothing they can do to stop our ballistic subs from retaliating in the event of war. And good luck trying to chase down 18 subs firing 24 MIRVed missiles from locations all over the Earth. So yea this tech might be a hassle for us but the cornerstone of the importance of subs is still unchanged.

  28. Could this gravitational anomaly detection technology be used to detect the effects from a Mach-Woodward/MEGA drive? If not, then why not?

  29. Could this gravitational anomaly detection technology be used to detect the effects from a Mach-Woodward/MEGA drive? If not then why not?

  30. Could this gravitational anomaly detection technology be used to detect the effects from a Mach-Woodward/MEGA drive? If not, then why not?

  31. Could this gravitational anomaly detection technology be used to detect the effects from a Mach-Woodward/MEGA drive? If not then why not?

  32. I don’t think you can entangle sonic phonons the way you can entangle radar photons. If you can, then it might be possible in principle. Doesn’t sound like anybody’s figured out how to do that yet, thought.

  33. I don’t think you can entangle sonic phonons the way you can entangle radar photons. If you can then it might be possible in principle. Doesn’t sound like anybody’s figured out how to do that yet thought.

  34. I don’t think you can entangle sonic phonons the way you can entangle radar photons. If you can, then it might be possible in principle. Doesn’t sound like anybody’s figured out how to do that yet, thought.

  35. I don’t think you can entangle sonic phonons the way you can entangle radar photons. If you can then it might be possible in principle. Doesn’t sound like anybody’s figured out how to do that yet thought.

  36. Somehow, I expect the countries that are furthest along in things like this are the ones saying the least about their capabilities, and visa versa. The gravitational anomalies aspect is going to be interesting. One pictures a day when a van can drive down the streets looking for open spaces under the earth of nearby properties that shouldn’t be there. And then there are those see-through anything devices that are currently kind of primitive and mainly used for fire and police (we are told) but, as better and better computers become available to analyze the return data on the fly, should eventually “permit” that same van going down the street to detect large quantities of contraband (weapons should be relatively easy) hidden anywhere within hundreds of feet. Privacy issues are going to be insane, both the real issues and the fake ones (such as “Aiiee, they are spying on our women!”). If a technology becomes available to scramble or blur the return wave for such devices, it will probably be outlawed, like radar scramblers (and some states may even declare a detector of such waves illegal). Then, about ten to fifteen years later, the kids in the garage down the street will be able to look into any house in the neighborhood in high definition (and it won’t matter if you have the lights off or are hiding under the covers). Privacy wasn’t a thing at all until sometime during the Renaissance, at the earliest . . . and it may prove to have been a very temporary thing in human history.

  37. Somehow I expect the countries that are furthest along in things like this are the ones saying the least about their capabilities and visa versa.The gravitational anomalies aspect is going to be interesting. One pictures a day when a van can drive down the streets looking for open spaces under the earth of nearby properties that shouldn’t be there. And then there are those see-through anything devices that are currently kind of primitive and mainly used for fire and police (we are told) but as better and better computers become available to analyze the return data on the fly should eventually permit”” that same van going down the street to detect large quantities of contraband (weapons should be relatively easy) hidden anywhere within hundreds of feet. Privacy issues are going to be insane”””” both the real issues and the fake ones (such as “”””Aiiee”””” they are spying on our women!””””). If a technology becomes available to scramble or blur the return wave for such devices”” it will probably be outlawed like radar scramblers (and some states may even declare a detector of such waves illegal).Then about ten to fifteen years later the kids in the garage down the street will be able to look into any house in the neighborhood in high definition (and it won’t matter if you have the lights off or are hiding under the covers). Privacy wasn’t a thing at all until sometime during the Renaissance”” at the earliest . . . and it may prove to have been a very temporary thing in human history.”””

  38. Somehow, I expect the countries that are furthest along in things like this are the ones saying the least about their capabilities, and visa versa. The gravitational anomalies aspect is going to be interesting. One pictures a day when a van can drive down the streets looking for open spaces under the earth of nearby properties that shouldn’t be there. And then there are those see-through anything devices that are currently kind of primitive and mainly used for fire and police (we are told) but, as better and better computers become available to analyze the return data on the fly, should eventually “permit” that same van going down the street to detect large quantities of contraband (weapons should be relatively easy) hidden anywhere within hundreds of feet. Privacy issues are going to be insane, both the real issues and the fake ones (such as “Aiiee, they are spying on our women!”). If a technology becomes available to scramble or blur the return wave for such devices, it will probably be outlawed, like radar scramblers (and some states may even declare a detector of such waves illegal). Then, about ten to fifteen years later, the kids in the garage down the street will be able to look into any house in the neighborhood in high definition (and it won’t matter if you have the lights off or are hiding under the covers). Privacy wasn’t a thing at all until sometime during the Renaissance, at the earliest . . . and it may prove to have been a very temporary thing in human history.

  39. Somehow I expect the countries that are furthest along in things like this are the ones saying the least about their capabilities and visa versa.The gravitational anomalies aspect is going to be interesting. One pictures a day when a van can drive down the streets looking for open spaces under the earth of nearby properties that shouldn’t be there. And then there are those see-through anything devices that are currently kind of primitive and mainly used for fire and police (we are told) but as better and better computers become available to analyze the return data on the fly should eventually permit”” that same van going down the street to detect large quantities of contraband (weapons should be relatively easy) hidden anywhere within hundreds of feet. Privacy issues are going to be insane”””” both the real issues and the fake ones (such as “”””Aiiee”””” they are spying on our women!””””). If a technology becomes available to scramble or blur the return wave for such devices”” it will probably be outlawed like radar scramblers (and some states may even declare a detector of such waves illegal).Then about ten to fifteen years later the kids in the garage down the street will be able to look into any house in the neighborhood in high definition (and it won’t matter if you have the lights off or are hiding under the covers). Privacy wasn’t a thing at all until sometime during the Renaissance”” at the earliest . . . and it may prove to have been a very temporary thing in human history.”””

  40. Even if China or Russia knows exactly where each and every sub is, there is nothing they can do to stop our ballistic subs from retaliating in the event of war.

    And good luck trying to chase down 18 subs firing 24 MIRVed missiles from locations all over the Earth.

    So yea, this tech might be a hassle for us, but the cornerstone of the importance of subs is still unchanged.

  41. I don’t think you can entangle sonic phonons the way you can entangle radar photons. If you can, then it might be possible in principle. Doesn’t sound like anybody’s figured out how to do that yet, thought.

  42. Somehow, I expect the countries that are furthest along in things like this are the ones saying the least about their capabilities, and visa versa.

    The gravitational anomalies aspect is going to be interesting. One pictures a day when a van can drive down the streets looking for open spaces under the earth of nearby properties that shouldn’t be there.

    And then there are those see-through anything devices that are currently kind of primitive and mainly used for fire and police (we are told) but, as better and better computers become available to analyze the return data on the fly, should eventually “permit” that same van going down the street to detect large quantities of contraband (weapons should be relatively easy) hidden anywhere within hundreds of feet. Privacy issues are going to be insane, both the real issues and the fake ones (such as “Aiiee, they are spying on our women!”). If a technology becomes available to scramble or blur the return wave for such devices, it will probably be outlawed, like radar scramblers (and some states may even declare a detector of such waves illegal).

    Then, about ten to fifteen years later, the kids in the garage down the street will be able to look into any house in the neighborhood in high definition (and it won’t matter if you have the lights off or are hiding under the covers). Privacy wasn’t a thing at all until sometime during the Renaissance, at the earliest . . . and it may prove to have been a very temporary thing in human history.

  43. Hmmm… it also appears that they hope to do this from space… you know, through the atmosphere… the probability of this working seems to be close to nil. On a low-flying plane? Sure but then you have the issue of the ocean being frigging huge. I tend to agree with what combinatorics alludes to: it sounds like someone figured out a cushy and secure job. Just tell the Chinese military you can track U.S. subs, it will just take tons of money and a decade of research to get a proof of concept working.

  44. Hmmm… it also appears that they hope to do this from space… you know through the atmosphere… the probability of this working seems to be close to nil. On a low-flying plane? Sure but then you have the issue of the ocean being frigging huge. I tend to agree with what combinatorics alludes to: it sounds like someone figured out a cushy and secure job. Just tell the Chinese military you can track U.S. subs it will just take tons of money and a decade of research to get a proof of concept working.

  45. Hmmm… it also appears that they hope to do this from space… you know, through the atmosphere… the probability of this working seems to be close to nil. On a low-flying plane? Sure but then you have the issue of the ocean being frigging huge. I tend to agree with what combinatorics alludes to: it sounds like someone figured out a cushy and secure job. Just tell the Chinese military you can track U.S. subs, it will just take tons of money and a decade of research to get a proof of concept working.

  46. Hmmm… it also appears that they hope to do this from space… you know through the atmosphere… the probability of this working seems to be close to nil. On a low-flying plane? Sure but then you have the issue of the ocean being frigging huge. I tend to agree with what combinatorics alludes to: it sounds like someone figured out a cushy and secure job. Just tell the Chinese military you can track U.S. subs it will just take tons of money and a decade of research to get a proof of concept working.

  47. All navies live in continual fear of advances in sea surface penetrating lidar, as that is the last real stealth domain left. Now , not space based lidar, that is approaching fantasy, but aircraft based is sorta a thing , see JALBTCX using lidar for bathymetry.

  48. All navies live in continual fear of advances in sea surface penetrating lidar as that is the last real stealth domain left. Now not space based lidar that is approaching fantasy but aircraft based is sorta a thing see JALBTCX using lidar for bathymetry.

  49. All navies live in continual fear of advances in sea surface penetrating lidar, as that is the last real stealth domain left. Now , not space based lidar, that is approaching fantasy, but aircraft based is sorta a thing , see JALBTCX using lidar for bathymetry.

  50. All navies live in continual fear of advances in sea surface penetrating lidar as that is the last real stealth domain left. Now not space based lidar that is approaching fantasy but aircraft based is sorta a thing see JALBTCX using lidar for bathymetry.

  51. I thought the Chinese were going to find submarines using their own SOSUS system and “Big Data”. Sounds like full employment for anyone who can come up with an idea to hunt subs. Must be a cushy job. I recall from reading about this (quite literally) decades ago that you need certain frequencies of blue light to penetrate seawater. Sounds like this could be defeated with some submarine coatings.

  52. I thought the Chinese were going to find submarines using their own SOSUS system and Big Data””.Sounds like full employment for anyone who can come up with an idea to hunt subs. Must be a cushy job.I recall from reading about this (quite literally) decades ago that you need certain frequencies of blue light to penetrate seawater. Sounds like this could be defeated with some submarine coatings.”””

  53. I thought the Chinese were going to find submarines using their own SOSUS system and “Big Data”. Sounds like full employment for anyone who can come up with an idea to hunt subs. Must be a cushy job. I recall from reading about this (quite literally) decades ago that you need certain frequencies of blue light to penetrate seawater. Sounds like this could be defeated with some submarine coatings.

  54. I thought the Chinese were going to find submarines using their own SOSUS system and Big Data””.Sounds like full employment for anyone who can come up with an idea to hunt subs. Must be a cushy job.I recall from reading about this (quite literally) decades ago that you need certain frequencies of blue light to penetrate seawater. Sounds like this could be defeated with some submarine coatings.”””

  55. Hmmm… it also appears that they hope to do this from space… you know, through the atmosphere… the probability of this working seems to be close to nil. On a low-flying plane? Sure but then you have the issue of the ocean being frigging huge. I tend to agree with what combinatorics alludes to: it sounds like someone figured out a cushy and secure job. Just tell the Chinese military you can track U.S. subs, it will just take tons of money and a decade of research to get a proof of concept working.

  56. All navies live in continual fear of advances in sea surface penetrating lidar, as that is the last real stealth domain left. Now , not space based lidar, that is approaching fantasy, but aircraft based is sorta a thing , see JALBTCX using lidar for bathymetry.

  57. I thought the Chinese were going to find submarines using their own SOSUS system and “Big Data”.

    Sounds like full employment for anyone who can come up with an idea to hunt subs. Must be a cushy job.

    I recall from reading about this (quite literally) decades ago that you need certain frequencies of blue light to penetrate seawater. Sounds like this could be defeated with some submarine coatings.

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