Tyndall airbase suffered a lot of damage from Hurricane Michael. Many buildings on base are a complete loss, and the rest sustained severe damage. The drone runway had catastrophic damage. Tyndall’s marina is completely destroyed, including its structures and docks.
Damage to hangars is slowing efforts to assess aircraft damage.
Seventeen F-22s seemed to have suffered some damage. It has not been reported how many will be completely written off.
Brian Wang is a Futurist Thought Leader and a popular Science blogger with 1 million readers per month. His blog Nextbigfuture.com is ranked #1 Science News Blog. It covers many disruptive technology and trends including Space, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, Medicine, Anti-aging Biotechnology, and Nanotechnology.
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I’ve always liked the acronym, SHITE… shît happens involving touchy equipment. Seems like a typical military SNAFU, doesn’t it?
⊕1
Definitely poor management and a waste of taxpayers money for not taking evasive action before the storm hit !
seventeen plus more were in for maintence, if that’s true then why such a large number or more in at one time”’how many of these F22 do we have that are flying at any given time
why the hell didn’t the AIRforce fly the planes our of there,,like they did at Homestead AFB for hurricane Andrew ???????????????????? Guess a waste of our tax payers money………what a wasteful country we live in
They were down for maintenance and were not flyable, storm blew in before they could be made flyable.
Who has what to do with it, you m0ron?
Excellent More money wasted in the military .. Less money to become competitive
They could’ve been flown out.https://rightsideoutput.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ch53e_01.jpg?w=630
I’ve always liked the acronym SHITE… shît happens involving touchy equipment. Seems like a typical military SNAFU doesn’t it?”
⊕1
Definitely poor management and a waste of taxpayers money for not taking evasive action before the storm hit !
seventeen plus more were in for maintence if that’s true then why such a large number or more in at one time”’how many of these F22 do we have that are flying at any given time
why the hell didn’t the AIRforce fly the planes our of therelike they did at Homestead AFB for hurricane Andrew ????????????????????Guess a waste of our tax payers money………what a wasteful country we live in
They were down for maintenance and were not flyable storm blew in before they could be made flyable.
Who has what to do with it you m0ron?
Excellent More money wasted in the military .. Less money to become competitive
why when the funs really about to begin
They should seriously consider abandoning the base and move to another. Further in land?
A cat 4 hurricane doesn’t magically spring up overnight A cat 4 hurricane starts as a cat 1, and it slowly speeds up over many days to 150mph+ winds Meteorologists started predicting a cat 4 or a cat 5 4 days before the base was hit
Yes they can be trucked out and transported People move big things all the time, and there are many things bigger than a plane Its called having a contingency plan and planning for it Especially in Florida They had years and years to create a plan that could be operated in short notice to get every plane to safety. This disaster is a result of multiple years of executive failure Such as Failing to design a hangar strong enough to withstand a cat 4 hurricane Failure to have parts on hand, The F-22’s shouldn’t have been used for training if they weren’t going to have maintenance parts unavailable Failure in having so much critical aircraft located at a base prone to hurricanes Companies like Microsoft, Apple etc all have contingency plans in case of say a Earthquake or a hurricane etc… to save as much equipment as possible and to restart ASAP State and local governments are supposed to have contingency plans to deal with earthquakes and hurricanes to get streets clear, and water and electricity running. No excuses, can you imagine a corporate executive being admonished for failing to produce goods because his supplier ran into problems? Can you imagine how ridiculous it looks when he had years to plan for backup suppliers, or to stockpile parts in case of a supplier shortage?
They could’ve been flown out. https://rightsideoutput.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ch53e_01.jpg?w=630
why when the funs really about to begin
They should seriously consider abandoning the base and move to another. Further in land?
A cat 4 hurricane doesn’t magically spring up overnightA cat 4 hurricane starts as a cat 1 and it slowly speeds up over many days to 150mph+ winds Meteorologists started predicting a cat 4 or a cat 5 4 days before the base was hit
Yes they can be trucked out and transported People move big things all the time and there are many things bigger than a plane Its called having a contingency plan and planning for it Especially in Florida They had years and years to create a plan that could be operated in short notice to get every plane to safety. This disaster is a result of multiple years of executive failure Such as Failing to design a hangar strong enough to withstand a cat 4 hurricane Failure to have parts on hand The F-22’s shouldn’t have been used for training if they weren’t going to have maintenance parts unavailable Failure in having so much critical aircraft located at a base prone to hurricanesCompanies like Microsoft Apple etc all have contingency plans in case of say a Earthquake or a hurricane etc… to save as much equipment as possible and to restart ASAP State and local governments are supposed to have contingency plans to deal with earthquakes and hurricanes to get streets clear and water and electricity running. No excuses can you imagine a corporate executive being admonished for failing to produce goods because his supplier ran into problems? Can you imagine how ridiculous it looks when he had years to plan for backup suppliers or to stockpile parts in case of a supplier shortage?
I’m looking at this from a purely operational readiness stand point. I understand that it would be a huge hit to the economy that is already hard hit. This is the same argument used every time a military base closes then the developers move in…
These rates would not be accepted in SAC
Such a sad state for the up and running rate on the F22 . Could it be we need better funding from Congress ? This rate of being prepared would have never been accepted in SAC !
No, but if 17 F22s were down for maintenance out of the 55 stationed there, that’s a 69% FMC rate and is abysmal. Never in my fighter world experience were we at that low of a rate. Not saying that these should have just been flown out but if they truly had 17 code 3 aircraft, they need to seriously look at their maintenance capabilities.
I’m looking at this from a purely operational readiness stand point. I understand that it would be a huge hit to the economy that is already hard hit. This is the same argument used every time a military base closes then the developers move in…
These rates would not be accepted in SAC
Such a sad state for the up and running rate on the F22 . Could it be we need better funding from Congress ? This rate of being prepared would have never been accepted in SAC !
No but if 17 F22s were down for maintenance out of the 55 stationed there that’s a 69{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} FMC rate and is abysmal. Never in my fighter world experience were we at that low of a rate. Not saying that these should have just been flown out but if they truly had 17 code 3 aircraft they need to seriously look at their maintenance capabilities.
The aircraft left behind were being rebuilt and could not fly
You had 2 days of warning before it hit, but the storm was detected 5 days before it actually hit It formed 5 days ago near the pointy part of mexico roughly 1,000 miles away and spent 4 days traveling across water before it hit land on its 5th day Meteorologists were predicting cat 4 or cat 5 when it was forming due to various instrumentation like barometric pressure, water temperature, air temperature etc…
You do understand English right? You do have a dictionary right? You do understand the words “predicted” and “actual” right You do understand that “predicted” comes before “actual” right Now for the science Hurricane’s aren’t magic, they are science they follow scientific laws like conservation of energy and thermodynamics Thus Meteorologists are able to predict the strength of a hurricane in advance based on doing math, calculating heat flux’s, looking at the water temperature, looking at the change in water temperature, looking at the barometric pressure, looking at wind speed, looking at barometric pressure change and wind speed change over time. And they predicted right when the Storm was forming that it could go up to cat 4 or 5 the storm then took roughly 4 days of traveling over water before it hit inland
No it was a cat 2 and then went to cat 4 over a 24 hour period. But Meteorologist were predicting that it would be cat 4 or 5, 5 days in advance so they predicted that it had a strong chance of becoming cat for or cat 5 when it was still a cat 1 hurricane Hurricane’s aren’t magic, they are science they follow scientific laws like conservation of energy and thermodynamics Thus Meteorologists are able to predict the strength of a hurricane in advance based on doing math, calculating heat flux’s, looking at the water temperature, looking at the change in water temperature, looking at the barometric pressure, looking at wind speed, looking at barometric pressure change and wind speed change over time. A hurricane literally unleashes the energy equivalent of hundreds of atomic bombs per hour
The aircraft left behind were being rebuilt and could not fly
You had 2 days of warning before it hit but the storm was detected 5 days before it actually hit It formed 5 days ago near the pointy part of mexico roughly 1000 miles away and spent 4 days traveling across water before it hit land on its 5th dayMeteorologists were predicting cat 4 or cat 5 when it was forming due to various instrumentation like barometric pressure water temperature air temperature etc…
You do understand English right?You do have a dictionary right? You do understand the words predicted”” and “”””actual”””” rightYou do understand that “”””predicted”””” comes before “”””actual”””” right Now for the scienceHurricane’s aren’t magic”” they are science they follow scientific laws like conservation of energy and thermodynamics Thus Meteorologists are able to predict the strength of a hurricane in advance based on doing math calculating heat flux’s looking at the water temperature looking at the change in water temperature looking at the barometric pressure looking at wind speed”” looking at barometric pressure change and wind speed change over time. And they predicted right when the Storm was forming that it could go up to cat 4 or 5 the storm then took roughly 4 days of traveling over water before it hit inland”””
No it was a cat 2 and then went to cat 4 over a 24 hour period. But Meteorologist were predicting that it would be cat 4 or 5 5 days in advance so they predicted that it had a strong chance of becoming cat for or cat 5 when it was still a cat 1 hurricaneHurricane’s aren’t magic they are science they follow scientific laws like conservation of energy and thermodynamicsThus Meteorologists are able to predict the strength of a hurricane in advance based on doing math calculating heat flux’s looking at the water temperature looking at the change in water temperature looking at the barometric pressure looking at wind speed looking at barometric pressure change and wind speed change over time.A hurricane literally unleashes the energy equivalent of hundreds of atomic bombs per hour
Evasive action? Yes, they totally should have their bases on giant legs so the entire military airfield could get up and run away.
Are you thinking of moving it to the tornado area? The earthquake area? The ice storm area? Where exactly was your idea?
Did you even bother to read the other comments before asking your question? These were the planes that weren’t operational.
If this is the equivalent of losing WW3 then what is everyone worried about? Looks like WW3 would be just a line item in the budget. Not something to be scared of.
You haven’t encountered Matheus yet I take it? He is “special”.
Actually that is not 69% FMC aircraft, that is 29% flight capable aircraft. 🙂 I worked of F-14s, another very maintenance heavy aircraft, and any time we were not deployed we were lucky to be able to maintain 50% flight capable aircraft. F-22s require around 40-50 hours of maintenance wile F-14 as much as 100-120. F-18c/d around 20-35, F-18e/f/g 15-30. The maintenance can vary depending on your squadrons priority for parts. If we were deployed we had to have 100% flight capable aircraft or they would not go, if the squadron was unable to get one jet ready they would get a jet from another squadron, I remember that happening a few times. It really sucks because they always take your best jet and you get stuck fixing jets you never worked on before. If you don’t have the part and have to take it out of another jet that just tripled the maintenance time. My point is that you can’t really blame the people on the ground, these F-22s were not a priority for parts. To get a real hangar queen to fly you might need as long a month. Here they could not borrow parts from another squadron. And to get all the parts needed they would have had to start getting parts long before they know they were going to need them.
Are you thinking of moving it to the tornado area? The earthquake area? The ice storm area? Where exactly was your idea?
Did you even bother to read the other comments before asking your question? These were the planes that weren’t operational.
If this is the equivalent of losing WW3 then what is everyone worried about? Looks like WW3 would be just a line item in the budget. Not something to be scared of.
You haven’t encountered Matheus yet I take it? He is special””.”””
Actually that is not 69{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} FMC aircraft that is 29{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} flight capable aircraft. :)I worked of F-14s another very maintenance heavy aircraft and any time we were not deployed we were lucky to be able to maintain 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} flight capable aircraft. F-22s require around 40-50 hours of maintenance wile F-14 as much as 100-120. F-18c/d around 20-35 F-18e/f/g 15-30. The maintenance can vary depending on your squadrons priority for parts. If we were deployed we had to have 100{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} flight capable aircraft or they would not go if the squadron was unable to get one jet ready they would get a jet from another squadron I remember that happening a few times. It really sucks because they always take your best jet and you get stuck fixing jets you never worked on before. If you don’t have the part and have to take it out of another jet that just tripled the maintenance time. My point is that you can’t really blame the people on the ground these F-22s were not a priority for parts. To get a real hangar queen to fly you might need as long a month. Here they could not borrow parts from another squadron. And to get all the parts needed they would have had to start getting parts long before they know they were going to need them.
If a proper militaristic president had been elected then she would have sent all the aircraft to the middle east and started bombing Iran or something. Because Trump is a goody twoshoes peacenik the USA isn’t at war anywhere much and so all the aircraft were at home when the hurricane struck. So it’s his fault.
Why could they not have trucked them out ” An F22 weighs 19 000 kg. It is 19 m long. It is 14 m wide. Does this answer your question? If you need more working time, remember that there was 1 or 2 days notice and the roads were clogged with everyone else trying to get away. Furthermore the plane is delicate. And highly, HIGHLY secret so that no unauthorised person is allowed to get near it. Trucking one, just one, across the state would involve weeks of preparation and shutting down entire sections of highway.
If a proper militaristic president had been elected then she would have sent all the aircraft to the middle east and started bombing Iran or something.Because Trump is a goody twoshoes peacenik the USA isn’t at war anywhere much and so all the aircraft were at home when the hurricane struck.So it’s his fault.
Why could they not have trucked them out “”An F22 weighs 19 000 kg. It is 19 m long. It is 14 m wide. Does this answer your question?If you need more working time”” remember that there was 1 or 2 days notice and the roads were clogged with everyone else trying to get away. Furthermore the plane is delicate. And highly HIGHLY secret so that no unauthorised person is allowed to get near it.Trucking one just one”” across the state would involve weeks of preparation and shutting down entire sections of highway.”””
Evasive action?Yes they totally should have their bases on giant legs so the entire military airfield could get up and run away.
No it was a cat 2 and then went to cat 4 over a 24 hour period.
No it was a cat 2 and then went to cat 4 over a 24 hour period. “” “””
See answers above…
Read answers above…
Science, huh? Now: reality check. In order to “move” those F-22s not capable of flying, you have two choices, truck or fly. In either case, the vertical stabs and wings come off. That means 22 sets (44 total) wing dollies. Do you know how many F-22 wing dollies there are? 4. Total. Even two weeks wouldn’t be enough time to de-wing each bird. Oh, and only certain people are qualified to de-wing the F-22 and they’re all at the depot, thousands of miles away! Let’s see, 12 hours of prep for each wing (defuel, depuddle, depanel, disconnect hydraulic, fuel, and electric lines, flight controls, etc), 10 hours to de-wing, call it a day/wing, 2 days per jet, ooooh, 44 days to prep…science predicted the hurricane 44 days out, right? No? Science let us down again you say? Up next: Tragedy befalls thousands because F-22s were taking up roads that evacuees could have used to get out, but instead perished in the storm surge and winds. Oh, fly? It’s 1 per C-5 (with wings and tails off, of course), so 22 C-5s would be needed…but OK, we can put the rest of the world on hold to put 50% of the C-5 fleet at Tyndall’s disposal for a few days. But, there’s that problem with wing dollies… You see, there is NOTHING that could have been done that wasn’t…NOTHING would’ve changed the results Good news: We maintainers are a plucky lot and we’ll fix anything given enough parts and time. I predict: All damaged F-22s will fly again within one year…a couple may need some depot work, but the rest should be just sheet metal, stealth coatings, maybe some ailerons/flaps/rudders changed out for dings/holes.
I LIKE this idea…save big bucks when deploying, just get the base up and walk there…LOL.
Nope, no “poor management” in this case. They took appropriate actions, prepped as best they could and they’ll fix/repair the damaged jets and get them flying again.
That would be true, but in this case there was no “poor management”. Crap happens. Hurricanes blow, aircraft get damaged. They got out the ones that could fly, stuffed the others in the most secure hangar and then hung on for dear life. If I had to guess, the vast majority of those birds will be repaired in a few weeks with only one or two at most needing depot work. They’ll all fly again, probably within a year at most.
One word: Snow. Two words: Ice, snow. Four words: Bad weather, ice, snow. Tyndall made a great training location because of good weather nearly year-round, a HUGE training range called the Gulf of Mexico, and lastly, the cost of living in Florida is WAY cheaper than Ohio… There were good reasons the regular AF left Rickenchicken to the Guard…
I’m sure they’ll look at whether it’s cost effective to rebuild Tyndall AFB. For the moment the right thing is to say: “We’ll rebuild!” Then, as costs/options are considered and planned, they’ll make a final decision. IMHO, Tyndall had enough missions and requirements to justify rebuilding, but that’s just me.
See answers above…logistics wins wars and can be a bear to keep up.
See answers above…
The NMC (not mission capable) rate is derived from both scheduled and unscheduled maintenance. Scheduled: Inspections that require significant teardown and then a week or so just to put back together (and then check flight from a functional check flight (FCF) pilot to prove it’s airworthy) usually 1 or 2 per unit; training aircraft also sometimes required significant teardown to teach the newbies how to repair various systems usually 1 per unit. Cannibalization (cann) birds: Aircraft deliberately stripped of parts to solve parts shortages normally 1 or 2 per unit. Mods/TCTOs (time compliance technical orders (think: like a recall for your car) can be 1 per unit. So we’re up to 3-6 birds per unit X 2 units = 6-12 aircraft that were not going to fly out no matter what.Unscheduled: Aircraft that break during normal ops…can be hydraulic avionics structure etc. Normally we strive to fix all those ASAP but when your previous Commander In Chief decides to cut your parts budget and manning you sit and wait for parts to arrive (or use the cann birds if possible) and people to work the problems. It takes 3-5 years to get a mechanic up to a solid tradesman (5-level) and it takes 2-4 years to turn on the parts pipeline (companies move on to other contracts and have to restart production lines or increase production). So here we are hiring like it’s going out of style and ordering more parts but they won’t be here until another year or so. And then there’s priority…guess what priority for parts a training base has compared to front line units and those deployed? You got it last. Dead last (OK depot is really dead last so mostly dead last) so parts go on backorder for days weeks and then months… That’s the 4-6 birds per unit that make up the difference and 22 overall.Overall the AF was keeping about 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} in flying status. But never fear our intrepid SedDef has ordered”” the service”
Read answers above…
Science huh?Now: reality check. In order to move”” those F-22s not capable of flying”” you have two choices truck or fly. In either case the vertical stabs and wings come off. That means 22 sets (44 total) wing dollies. Do you know how many F-22 wing dollies there are? 4. Total. Even two weeks wouldn’t be enough time to de-wing each bird. Oh and only certain people are qualified to de-wing the F-22 and they’re all at the depot thousands of miles away! Let’s see 12 hours of prep for each wing (defuel depuddle depanel disconnect hydraulic fuel and electric lines flight controls etc) 10 hours to de-wing call it a day/wing 2 days per jet ooooh 44 days to prep…science predicted the hurricane 44 days out right? No? Science let us down again you say?Up next: Tragedy befalls thousands because F-22s were taking up roads that evacuees could have used to get out but instead perished in the storm surge and winds. Oh fly? It’s 1 per C-5 (with wings and tails off of course) so 22 C-5s would be needed…but OK we can put the rest of the world on hold to put 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of the C-5 fleet at Tyndall’s disposal for a few days. But there’s that problem with wing dollies…You see there is NOTHING that could have been done that wasn’t…NOTHING would’ve changed the resultsGood news: We maintainers are a plucky lot and we’ll fix anything given enough parts and time. I predict: All damaged F-22s will fly again within one year…a couple may need some depot work but the rest should be just sheet metal stealth coatings”” maybe some ailerons/flaps/rudders changed out for dings/holes.”””
I LIKE this idea…save big bucks when deploying just get the base up and walk there…LOL.
Nope no poor management”” in this case. They took appropriate actions”””” prepped as best they could and they’ll fix/repair the damaged jets and get them flying again.”””
That would be true but in this case there was no poor management””. Crap happens. Hurricanes blow”” aircraft get damaged. They got out the ones that could fly stuffed the others in the most secure hangar and then hung on for dear life. If I had to guess the vast majority of those birds will be repaired in a few weeks with only one or two at most needing depot work. They’ll all fly again”” probably within a year at most.”””
One word: Snow. Two words: Ice snow. Four words: Bad weather ice snow.Tyndall made a great training location because of good weather nearly year-round a HUGE training range called the Gulf of Mexico and lastly the cost of living in Florida is WAY cheaper than Ohio… There were good reasons the regular AF left Rickenchicken to the Guard…
I’m sure they’ll look at whether it’s cost effective to rebuild Tyndall AFB. For the moment the right thing is to say: We’ll rebuild!”” Then”” as costs/options are considered and planned they’ll make a final decision. IMHO Tyndall had enough missions and requirements to justify rebuilding”” but that’s just me.”””
Look, I’m not calling you stupid…but you ARE ignorant. Ignorant of military aviation, aviation maintenance, etc. You seem smart enough to know about other things and be the expert. So, let those of us who are the experts on military aviation and aircraft maintenance tell you what is what. We’re not BSing…if we thought the maintenance commander screwed up, we’d be the first to call for his dismissal. They did all they could in the time allowed. You can read my lengthy comments above for more detail.
Well, actually, the “repair” area is in Idaho…depot. Tyndall is a flying training base.
You DO know it was the previous CinC that ordered the cuts in manpower and funding for spare parts, right? It takes years to recover from that.
+ 1!
See answers above…logistics wins wars and can be a bear to keep up.
The NMC (not mission capable) rate is derived from both scheduled and unscheduled maintenance. Scheduled: Inspections that require significant teardown and then a week or so just to put back together (and then check flight from a functional check flight (FCF) pilot to prove it’s airworthy), usually 1 or 2 per unit; training aircraft also sometimes required significant teardown to teach the newbies how to repair various systems, usually 1 per unit. Cannibalization (cann) birds: Aircraft deliberately stripped of parts to solve parts shortages, normally 1 or 2 per unit. Mods/TCTOs (time compliance technical orders (think: like a recall for your car), can be 1 per unit. So, we’re up to 3-6 birds per unit X 2 units = 6-12 aircraft that were not going to fly out, no matter what. Unscheduled: Aircraft that break during normal ops…can be hydraulic, avionics, structure, etc. Normally, we strive to fix all those ASAP, but when your previous Commander In Chief decides to cut your parts budget and manning, you sit and wait for parts to arrive (or use the cann birds, if possible) and people to work the problems. It takes 3-5 years to get a mechanic up to a solid tradesman (5-level), and it takes 2-4 years to turn on the parts pipeline (companies move on to other contracts and have to restart production lines or increase production). So, here we are, hiring like it’s going out of style and ordering more parts, but they won’t be here until another year or so. And then there’s priority…guess what priority for parts a training base has compared to front line units and those deployed? You got it, last. Dead last (OK, depot is really dead last, so mostly dead last), so parts go on backorder for days, weeks, and then months… That’s the 4-6 birds per unit that make up the difference, and 22 overall. Overall, the AF was keeping about 50% in flying status. But never fear, our intrepid SedDef has “ordered” the services to get the flyable rate up to 80% by next year…
Look I’m not calling you stupid…but you ARE ignorant. Ignorant of military aviation aviation maintenance etc. You seem smart enough to know about other things and be the expert. So let those of us who are the experts on military aviation and aircraft maintenance tell you what is what. We’re not BSing…if we thought the maintenance commander screwed up we’d be the first to call for his dismissal. They did all they could in the time allowed. You can read my lengthy comments above for more detail.
Well actually the repair”” area is in Idaho…depot. Tyndall is a flying training base.”””
You DO know it was the previous CinC that ordered the cuts in manpower and funding for spare parts right? It takes years to recover from that.
+ 1!
I’ve flown past Tyndall, flying along the Gulf Coast. The end of the runway is no more than half a mile from water’s edge. What’s the point of a base so close to a place that’s bound to have a hurricane/storm surge every 25 years or so. Also, why no contingency plan? That’s supposed to be a virtue of the military, lots of plans. It’s obvious that the place is vulnerable to a storm surge, but it sure seems obvious there was no workable plan in place. Abandon this base! And roast the commanding officer!
I’ve flown past Tyndall flying along the Gulf Coast. The end of the runway is no more than half a mile from water’s edge. What’s the point of a base so close to a place that’s bound to have a hurricane/storm surge every 25 years or so. Also why no contingency plan? That’s supposed to be a virtue of the military lots of plans. It’s obvious that the place is vulnerable to a storm surge but it sure seems obvious there was no workable plan in place.Abandon this base!And roast the commanding officer!
I’ve flown past Tyndall, flying along the Gulf Coast. The end of the runway is no more than half a mile from water’s edge. What’s the point of a base so close to a place that’s bound to have a hurricane/storm surge every 25 years or so. Also, why no contingency plan? That’s supposed to be a virtue of the military, lots of plans. It’s obvious that the place is vulnerable to a storm surge, but it sure seems obvious there was no workable plan in place. Abandon this base! And roast the commanding officer!
I’ve flown past Tyndall flying along the Gulf Coast. The end of the runway is no more than half a mile from water’s edge. What’s the point of a base so close to a place that’s bound to have a hurricane/storm surge every 25 years or so. Also why no contingency plan? That’s supposed to be a virtue of the military lots of plans. It’s obvious that the place is vulnerable to a storm surge but it sure seems obvious there was no workable plan in place.Abandon this base!And roast the commanding officer!
I’ve flown past Tyndall, flying along the Gulf Coast. The end of the runway is no more than half a mile from water’s edge. What’s the point of a base so close to a place that’s bound to have a hurricane/storm surge every 25 years or so.
Also, why no contingency plan? That’s supposed to be a virtue of the military, lots of plans. It’s obvious that the place is vulnerable to a storm surge, but it sure seems obvious there was no workable plan in place.
Abandon this base!
And roast the commanding officer!
Look, I’m not calling you stupid…but you ARE ignorant. Ignorant of military aviation, aviation maintenance, etc. You seem smart enough to know about other things and be the expert. So, let those of us who are the experts on military aviation and aircraft maintenance tell you what is what. We’re not BSing…if we thought the maintenance commander screwed up, we’d be the first to call for his dismissal. They did all they could in the time allowed. You can read my lengthy comments above for more detail.
Look I’m not calling you stupid…but you ARE ignorant. Ignorant of military aviation aviation maintenance etc. You seem smart enough to know about other things and be the expert. So let those of us who are the experts on military aviation and aircraft maintenance tell you what is what. We’re not BSing…if we thought the maintenance commander screwed up we’d be the first to call for his dismissal. They did all they could in the time allowed. You can read my lengthy comments above for more detail.
Well, actually, the “repair” area is in Idaho…depot. Tyndall is a flying training base.
Well actually the repair”” area is in Idaho…depot. Tyndall is a flying training base.”””
You DO know it was the previous CinC that ordered the cuts in manpower and funding for spare parts, right? It takes years to recover from that.
You DO know it was the previous CinC that ordered the cuts in manpower and funding for spare parts right? It takes years to recover from that.
+ 1!
+ 1!
See answers above…logistics wins wars and can be a bear to keep up.
See answers above…logistics wins wars and can be a bear to keep up.
See answers above…
See answers above…
The NMC (not mission capable) rate is derived from both scheduled and unscheduled maintenance. Scheduled: Inspections that require significant teardown and then a week or so just to put back together (and then check flight from a functional check flight (FCF) pilot to prove it’s airworthy), usually 1 or 2 per unit; training aircraft also sometimes required significant teardown to teach the newbies how to repair various systems, usually 1 per unit. Cannibalization (cann) birds: Aircraft deliberately stripped of parts to solve parts shortages, normally 1 or 2 per unit. Mods/TCTOs (time compliance technical orders (think: like a recall for your car), can be 1 per unit. So, we’re up to 3-6 birds per unit X 2 units = 6-12 aircraft that were not going to fly out, no matter what. Unscheduled: Aircraft that break during normal ops…can be hydraulic, avionics, structure, etc. Normally, we strive to fix all those ASAP, but when your previous Commander In Chief decides to cut your parts budget and manning, you sit and wait for parts to arrive (or use the cann birds, if possible) and people to work the problems. It takes 3-5 years to get a mechanic up to a solid tradesman (5-level), and it takes 2-4 years to turn on the parts pipeline (companies move on to other contracts and have to restart production lines or increase production). So, here we are, hiring like it’s going out of style and ordering more parts, but they won’t be here until another year or so. And then there’s priority…guess what priority for parts a training base has compared to front line units and those deployed? You got it, last. Dead last (OK, depot is really dead last, so mostly dead last), so parts go on backorder for days, weeks, and then months… That’s the 4-6 birds per unit that make up the difference, and 22 overall. Overall, the AF was keeping about 50% in flying status. But never fear, our intrepid SedDef has “ordered” the services to get the flyable rate up to 80% by next year…
The NMC (not mission capable) rate is derived from both scheduled and unscheduled maintenance. Scheduled: Inspections that require significant teardown and then a week or so just to put back together (and then check flight from a functional check flight (FCF) pilot to prove it’s airworthy) usually 1 or 2 per unit; training aircraft also sometimes required significant teardown to teach the newbies how to repair various systems usually 1 per unit. Cannibalization (cann) birds: Aircraft deliberately stripped of parts to solve parts shortages normally 1 or 2 per unit. Mods/TCTOs (time compliance technical orders (think: like a recall for your car) can be 1 per unit. So we’re up to 3-6 birds per unit X 2 units = 6-12 aircraft that were not going to fly out no matter what.Unscheduled: Aircraft that break during normal ops…can be hydraulic avionics structure etc. Normally we strive to fix all those ASAP but when your previous Commander In Chief decides to cut your parts budget and manning you sit and wait for parts to arrive (or use the cann birds if possible) and people to work the problems. It takes 3-5 years to get a mechanic up to a solid tradesman (5-level) and it takes 2-4 years to turn on the parts pipeline (companies move on to other contracts and have to restart production lines or increase production). So here we are hiring like it’s going out of style and ordering more parts but they won’t be here until another year or so. And then there’s priority…guess what priority for parts a training base has compared to front line units and those deployed? You got it last. Dead last (OK depot is really dead last so mostly dead last) so parts go on backorder for days weeks and then months… That’s the 4-6 birds per unit that make up the difference and 22 overall.Overall the AF was keeping about 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} in flying status. But never fear our intrepid SedDef has ordered”” the service”
Read answers above…
Read answers above…
Science, huh? Now: reality check. In order to “move” those F-22s not capable of flying, you have two choices, truck or fly. In either case, the vertical stabs and wings come off. That means 22 sets (44 total) wing dollies. Do you know how many F-22 wing dollies there are? 4. Total. Even two weeks wouldn’t be enough time to de-wing each bird. Oh, and only certain people are qualified to de-wing the F-22 and they’re all at the depot, thousands of miles away! Let’s see, 12 hours of prep for each wing (defuel, depuddle, depanel, disconnect hydraulic, fuel, and electric lines, flight controls, etc), 10 hours to de-wing, call it a day/wing, 2 days per jet, ooooh, 44 days to prep…science predicted the hurricane 44 days out, right? No? Science let us down again you say? Up next: Tragedy befalls thousands because F-22s were taking up roads that evacuees could have used to get out, but instead perished in the storm surge and winds. Oh, fly? It’s 1 per C-5 (with wings and tails off, of course), so 22 C-5s would be needed…but OK, we can put the rest of the world on hold to put 50% of the C-5 fleet at Tyndall’s disposal for a few days. But, there’s that problem with wing dollies… You see, there is NOTHING that could have been done that wasn’t…NOTHING would’ve changed the results Good news: We maintainers are a plucky lot and we’ll fix anything given enough parts and time. I predict: All damaged F-22s will fly again within one year…a couple may need some depot work, but the rest should be just sheet metal, stealth coatings, maybe some ailerons/flaps/rudders changed out for dings/holes.
Science huh?Now: reality check. In order to move”” those F-22s not capable of flying”” you have two choices truck or fly. In either case the vertical stabs and wings come off. That means 22 sets (44 total) wing dollies. Do you know how many F-22 wing dollies there are? 4. Total. Even two weeks wouldn’t be enough time to de-wing each bird. Oh and only certain people are qualified to de-wing the F-22 and they’re all at the depot thousands of miles away! Let’s see 12 hours of prep for each wing (defuel depuddle depanel disconnect hydraulic fuel and electric lines flight controls etc) 10 hours to de-wing call it a day/wing 2 days per jet ooooh 44 days to prep…science predicted the hurricane 44 days out right? No? Science let us down again you say?Up next: Tragedy befalls thousands because F-22s were taking up roads that evacuees could have used to get out but instead perished in the storm surge and winds. Oh fly? It’s 1 per C-5 (with wings and tails off of course) so 22 C-5s would be needed…but OK we can put the rest of the world on hold to put 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} of the C-5 fleet at Tyndall’s disposal for a few days. But there’s that problem with wing dollies…You see there is NOTHING that could have been done that wasn’t…NOTHING would’ve changed the resultsGood news: We maintainers are a plucky lot and we’ll fix anything given enough parts and time. I predict: All damaged F-22s will fly again within one year…a couple may need some depot work but the rest should be just sheet metal stealth coatings”” maybe some ailerons/flaps/rudders changed out for dings/holes.”””
I LIKE this idea…save big bucks when deploying, just get the base up and walk there…LOL.
I LIKE this idea…save big bucks when deploying just get the base up and walk there…LOL.
Nope, no “poor management” in this case. They took appropriate actions, prepped as best they could and they’ll fix/repair the damaged jets and get them flying again.
Nope no poor management”” in this case. They took appropriate actions”””” prepped as best they could and they’ll fix/repair the damaged jets and get them flying again.”””
That would be true, but in this case there was no “poor management”. Crap happens. Hurricanes blow, aircraft get damaged. They got out the ones that could fly, stuffed the others in the most secure hangar and then hung on for dear life. If I had to guess, the vast majority of those birds will be repaired in a few weeks with only one or two at most needing depot work. They’ll all fly again, probably within a year at most.
That would be true but in this case there was no poor management””. Crap happens. Hurricanes blow”” aircraft get damaged. They got out the ones that could fly stuffed the others in the most secure hangar and then hung on for dear life. If I had to guess the vast majority of those birds will be repaired in a few weeks with only one or two at most needing depot work. They’ll all fly again”” probably within a year at most.”””
One word: Snow. Two words: Ice, snow. Four words: Bad weather, ice, snow. Tyndall made a great training location because of good weather nearly year-round, a HUGE training range called the Gulf of Mexico, and lastly, the cost of living in Florida is WAY cheaper than Ohio… There were good reasons the regular AF left Rickenchicken to the Guard…
One word: Snow. Two words: Ice snow. Four words: Bad weather ice snow.Tyndall made a great training location because of good weather nearly year-round a HUGE training range called the Gulf of Mexico and lastly the cost of living in Florida is WAY cheaper than Ohio… There were good reasons the regular AF left Rickenchicken to the Guard…
I’m sure they’ll look at whether it’s cost effective to rebuild Tyndall AFB. For the moment the right thing is to say: “We’ll rebuild!” Then, as costs/options are considered and planned, they’ll make a final decision. IMHO, Tyndall had enough missions and requirements to justify rebuilding, but that’s just me.
I’m sure they’ll look at whether it’s cost effective to rebuild Tyndall AFB. For the moment the right thing is to say: We’ll rebuild!”” Then”” as costs/options are considered and planned they’ll make a final decision. IMHO Tyndall had enough missions and requirements to justify rebuilding”” but that’s just me.”””
No it was a cat 2 and then went to cat 4 over a 24 hour period.
No it was a cat 2 and then went to cat 4 over a 24 hour period. “” “””
Look, I’m not calling you stupid…but you ARE ignorant. Ignorant of military aviation, aviation maintenance, etc. You seem smart enough to know about other things and be the expert. So, let those of us who are the experts on military aviation and aircraft maintenance tell you what is what. We’re not BSing…if we thought the maintenance commander screwed up, we’d be the first to call for his dismissal. They did all they could in the time allowed. You can read my lengthy comments above for more detail.
Well, actually, the “repair” area is in Idaho…depot. Tyndall is a flying training base.
You DO know it was the previous CinC that ordered the cuts in manpower and funding for spare parts, right? It takes years to recover from that.
+ 1!
See answers above…logistics wins wars and can be a bear to keep up.
See answers above…
The NMC (not mission capable) rate is derived from both scheduled and unscheduled maintenance. Scheduled: Inspections that require significant teardown and then a week or so just to put back together (and then check flight from a functional check flight (FCF) pilot to prove it’s airworthy), usually 1 or 2 per unit; training aircraft also sometimes required significant teardown to teach the newbies how to repair various systems, usually 1 per unit. Cannibalization (cann) birds: Aircraft deliberately stripped of parts to solve parts shortages, normally 1 or 2 per unit. Mods/TCTOs (time compliance technical orders (think: like a recall for your car), can be 1 per unit. So, we’re up to 3-6 birds per unit X 2 units = 6-12 aircraft that were not going to fly out, no matter what.
Unscheduled: Aircraft that break during normal ops…can be hydraulic, avionics, structure, etc. Normally, we strive to fix all those ASAP, but when your previous Commander In Chief decides to cut your parts budget and manning, you sit and wait for parts to arrive (or use the cann birds, if possible) and people to work the problems. It takes 3-5 years to get a mechanic up to a solid tradesman (5-level), and it takes 2-4 years to turn on the parts pipeline (companies move on to other contracts and have to restart production lines or increase production). So, here we are, hiring like it’s going out of style and ordering more parts, but they won’t be here until another year or so. And then there’s priority…guess what priority for parts a training base has compared to front line units and those deployed? You got it, last. Dead last (OK, depot is really dead last, so mostly dead last), so parts go on backorder for days, weeks, and then months… That’s the 4-6 birds per unit that make up the difference, and 22 overall.
Overall, the AF was keeping about 50% in flying status. But never fear, our intrepid SedDef has “ordered” the services to get the flyable rate up to 80% by next year…LOL, as if that’s gonna happen. It will be another 2-3 years of proper funding and manning before we hit 80% again.
Read answers above…
Science, huh?
Now: reality check. In order to “move” those F-22s not capable of flying, you have two choices, truck or fly. In either case, the vertical stabs and wings come off. That means 22 sets (44 total) wing dollies. Do you know how many F-22 wing dollies there are? 4. Total. Even two weeks wouldn’t be enough time to de-wing each bird. Oh, and only certain people are qualified to de-wing the F-22 and they’re all at the depot, thousands of miles away! Let’s see, 12 hours of prep for each wing (defuel, depuddle, depanel, disconnect hydraulic, fuel, and electric lines, flight controls, etc), 10 hours to de-wing, call it a day/wing, 2 days per jet, ooooh, 44 days to prep…science predicted the hurricane 44 days out, right? No? Science let us down again you say?
Up next: Tragedy befalls thousands because F-22s were taking up roads that evacuees could have used to get out, but instead perished in the storm surge and winds. Oh, fly? It’s 1 per C-5 (with wings and tails off, of course), so 22 C-5s would be needed…but OK, we can put the rest of the world on hold to put 50% of the C-5 fleet at Tyndall’s disposal for a few days. But, there’s that problem with wing dollies…
You see, there is NOTHING that could have been done that wasn’t…NOTHING would’ve changed the results
Good news: We maintainers are a plucky lot and we’ll fix anything given enough parts and time. I predict: All damaged F-22s will fly again within one year…a couple may need some depot work, but the rest should be just sheet metal, stealth coatings, maybe some ailerons/flaps/rudders changed out for dings/holes.
I LIKE this idea…save big bucks when deploying, just get the base up and walk there…LOL.
Nope, no “poor management” in this case. They took appropriate actions, prepped as best they could and they’ll fix/repair the damaged jets and get them flying again.
That would be true, but in this case there was no “poor management”. Crap happens. Hurricanes blow, aircraft get damaged. They got out the ones that could fly, stuffed the others in the most secure hangar and then hung on for dear life. If I had to guess, the vast majority of those birds will be repaired in a few weeks with only one or two at most needing depot work. They’ll all fly again, probably within a year at most.
One word: Snow. Two words: Ice, snow. Four words: Bad weather, ice, snow.
Tyndall made a great training location because of good weather nearly year-round, a HUGE training range called the Gulf of Mexico, and lastly, the cost of living in Florida is WAY cheaper than Ohio… There were good reasons the regular AF left Rickenchicken to the Guard…
I’m sure they’ll look at whether it’s cost effective to rebuild Tyndall AFB. For the moment the right thing is to say: “We’ll rebuild!” Then, as costs/options are considered and planned, they’ll make a final decision. IMHO, Tyndall had enough missions and requirements to justify rebuilding, but that’s just me.
If a proper militaristic president had been elected then she would have sent all the aircraft to the middle east and started bombing Iran or something. Because Trump is a goody twoshoes peacenik the USA isn’t at war anywhere much and so all the aircraft were at home when the hurricane struck. So it’s his fault.
If a proper militaristic president had been elected then she would have sent all the aircraft to the middle east and started bombing Iran or something.Because Trump is a goody twoshoes peacenik the USA isn’t at war anywhere much and so all the aircraft were at home when the hurricane struck.So it’s his fault.
Why could they not have trucked them out ” An F22 weighs 19 000 kg. It is 19 m long. It is 14 m wide. Does this answer your question? If you need more working time, remember that there was 1 or 2 days notice and the roads were clogged with everyone else trying to get away. Furthermore the plane is delicate. And highly, HIGHLY secret so that no unauthorised person is allowed to get near it. Trucking one, just one, across the state would involve weeks of preparation and shutting down entire sections of highway.
Why could they not have trucked them out “”An F22 weighs 19 000 kg. It is 19 m long. It is 14 m wide. Does this answer your question?If you need more working time”” remember that there was 1 or 2 days notice and the roads were clogged with everyone else trying to get away. Furthermore the plane is delicate. And highly HIGHLY secret so that no unauthorised person is allowed to get near it.Trucking one just one”” across the state would involve weeks of preparation and shutting down entire sections of highway.”””
Evasive action? Yes, they totally should have their bases on giant legs so the entire military airfield could get up and run away.
Evasive action?Yes they totally should have their bases on giant legs so the entire military airfield could get up and run away.
Are you thinking of moving it to the tornado area? The earthquake area? The ice storm area? Where exactly was your idea?
Are you thinking of moving it to the tornado area? The earthquake area? The ice storm area? Where exactly was your idea?
Did you even bother to read the other comments before asking your question? These were the planes that weren’t operational.
Did you even bother to read the other comments before asking your question? These were the planes that weren’t operational.
If this is the equivalent of losing WW3 then what is everyone worried about? Looks like WW3 would be just a line item in the budget. Not something to be scared of.
If this is the equivalent of losing WW3 then what is everyone worried about? Looks like WW3 would be just a line item in the budget. Not something to be scared of.
You haven’t encountered Matheus yet I take it? He is “special”.
You haven’t encountered Matheus yet I take it? He is special””.”””
” No it was a cat 2 and then went to cat 4 over a 24 hour period. ” <-- A distinction without a difference, since as members of the service have stated, it can take many weeks to get a plane down for maintenance flying again, and an air wing such as this which is not deployed will have it's best planes requisitioned by a deploying wing, leaving the deployed wings planes needing maintenance to the home wing.
Actually that is not 69% FMC aircraft, that is 29% flight capable aircraft. 🙂 I worked of F-14s, another very maintenance heavy aircraft, and any time we were not deployed we were lucky to be able to maintain 50% flight capable aircraft. F-22s require around 40-50 hours of maintenance wile F-14 as much as 100-120. F-18c/d around 20-35, F-18e/f/g 15-30. The maintenance can vary depending on your squadrons priority for parts. If we were deployed we had to have 100% flight capable aircraft or they would not go, if the squadron was unable to get one jet ready they would get a jet from another squadron, I remember that happening a few times. It really sucks because they always take your best jet and you get stuck fixing jets you never worked on before. If you don’t have the part and have to take it out of another jet that just tripled the maintenance time. My point is that you can’t really blame the people on the ground, these F-22s were not a priority for parts. To get a real hangar queen to fly you might need as long a month. Here they could not borrow parts from another squadron. And to get all the parts needed they would have had to start getting parts long before they know they were going to need them.
Actually that is not 69{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} FMC aircraft that is 29{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} flight capable aircraft. :)I worked of F-14s another very maintenance heavy aircraft and any time we were not deployed we were lucky to be able to maintain 50{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} flight capable aircraft. F-22s require around 40-50 hours of maintenance wile F-14 as much as 100-120. F-18c/d around 20-35 F-18e/f/g 15-30. The maintenance can vary depending on your squadrons priority for parts. If we were deployed we had to have 100{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} flight capable aircraft or they would not go if the squadron was unable to get one jet ready they would get a jet from another squadron I remember that happening a few times. It really sucks because they always take your best jet and you get stuck fixing jets you never worked on before. If you don’t have the part and have to take it out of another jet that just tripled the maintenance time. My point is that you can’t really blame the people on the ground these F-22s were not a priority for parts. To get a real hangar queen to fly you might need as long a month. Here they could not borrow parts from another squadron. And to get all the parts needed they would have had to start getting parts long before they know they were going to need them.
The aircraft left behind were being rebuilt and could not fly
The aircraft left behind were being rebuilt and could not fly
You had 2 days of warning before it hit, but the storm was detected 5 days before it actually hit It formed 5 days ago near the pointy part of mexico roughly 1,000 miles away and spent 4 days traveling across water before it hit land on its 5th day Meteorologists were predicting cat 4 or cat 5 when it was forming due to various instrumentation like barometric pressure, water temperature, air temperature etc…
You had 2 days of warning before it hit but the storm was detected 5 days before it actually hit It formed 5 days ago near the pointy part of mexico roughly 1000 miles away and spent 4 days traveling across water before it hit land on its 5th dayMeteorologists were predicting cat 4 or cat 5 when it was forming due to various instrumentation like barometric pressure water temperature air temperature etc…
You do understand English right? You do have a dictionary right? You do understand the words “predicted” and “actual” right You do understand that “predicted” comes before “actual” right Now for the science Hurricane’s aren’t magic, they are science they follow scientific laws like conservation of energy and thermodynamics Thus Meteorologists are able to predict the strength of a hurricane in advance based on doing math, calculating heat flux’s, looking at the water temperature, looking at the change in water temperature, looking at the barometric pressure, looking at wind speed, looking at barometric pressure change and wind speed change over time. And they predicted right when the Storm was forming that it could go up to cat 4 or 5 the storm then took roughly 4 days of traveling over water before it hit inland
You do understand English right?You do have a dictionary right? You do understand the words predicted”” and “”””actual”””” rightYou do understand that “”””predicted”””” comes before “”””actual”””” right Now for the scienceHurricane’s aren’t magic”” they are science they follow scientific laws like conservation of energy and thermodynamics Thus Meteorologists are able to predict the strength of a hurricane in advance based on doing math calculating heat flux’s looking at the water temperature looking at the change in water temperature looking at the barometric pressure looking at wind speed”” looking at barometric pressure change and wind speed change over time. And they predicted right when the Storm was forming that it could go up to cat 4 or 5 the storm then took roughly 4 days of traveling over water before it hit inland”””
No it was a cat 2 and then went to cat 4 over a 24 hour period. But Meteorologist were predicting that it would be cat 4 or 5, 5 days in advance so they predicted that it had a strong chance of becoming cat for or cat 5 when it was still a cat 1 hurricane Hurricane’s aren’t magic, they are science they follow scientific laws like conservation of energy and thermodynamics Thus Meteorologists are able to predict the strength of a hurricane in advance based on doing math, calculating heat flux’s, looking at the water temperature, looking at the change in water temperature, looking at the barometric pressure, looking at wind speed, looking at barometric pressure change and wind speed change over time. A hurricane literally unleashes the energy equivalent of hundreds of atomic bombs per hour
No it was a cat 2 and then went to cat 4 over a 24 hour period. But Meteorologist were predicting that it would be cat 4 or 5 5 days in advance so they predicted that it had a strong chance of becoming cat for or cat 5 when it was still a cat 1 hurricaneHurricane’s aren’t magic they are science they follow scientific laws like conservation of energy and thermodynamicsThus Meteorologists are able to predict the strength of a hurricane in advance based on doing math calculating heat flux’s looking at the water temperature looking at the change in water temperature looking at the barometric pressure looking at wind speed looking at barometric pressure change and wind speed change over time.A hurricane literally unleashes the energy equivalent of hundreds of atomic bombs per hour
I’m looking at this from a purely operational readiness stand point. I understand that it would be a huge hit to the economy that is already hard hit. This is the same argument used every time a military base closes then the developers move in…
I’m looking at this from a purely operational readiness stand point. I understand that it would be a huge hit to the economy that is already hard hit. This is the same argument used every time a military base closes then the developers move in…
These rates would not be accepted in SAC
These rates would not be accepted in SAC
Such a sad state for the up and running rate on the F22 . Could it be we need better funding from Congress ? This rate of being prepared would have never been accepted in SAC !
Such a sad state for the up and running rate on the F22 . Could it be we need better funding from Congress ? This rate of being prepared would have never been accepted in SAC !
No, but if 17 F22s were down for maintenance out of the 55 stationed there, that’s a 69% FMC rate and is abysmal. Never in my fighter world experience were we at that low of a rate. Not saying that these should have just been flown out but if they truly had 17 code 3 aircraft, they need to seriously look at their maintenance capabilities.
No but if 17 F22s were down for maintenance out of the 55 stationed there that’s a 69{22800fc54956079738b58e74e4dcd846757aa319aad70fcf90c97a58f3119a12} FMC rate and is abysmal. Never in my fighter world experience were we at that low of a rate. Not saying that these should have just been flown out but if they truly had 17 code 3 aircraft they need to seriously look at their maintenance capabilities.
why when the funs really about to begin
why when the funs really about to begin
They should seriously consider abandoning the base and move to another. Further in land?
They should seriously consider abandoning the base and move to another. Further in land?
A cat 4 hurricane doesn’t magically spring up overnight A cat 4 hurricane starts as a cat 1, and it slowly speeds up over many days to 150mph+ winds Meteorologists started predicting a cat 4 or a cat 5 4 days before the base was hit
A cat 4 hurricane doesn’t magically spring up overnightA cat 4 hurricane starts as a cat 1 and it slowly speeds up over many days to 150mph+ winds Meteorologists started predicting a cat 4 or a cat 5 4 days before the base was hit
Yes they can be trucked out and transported People move big things all the time, and there are many things bigger than a plane Its called having a contingency plan and planning for it Especially in Florida They had years and years to create a plan that could be operated in short notice to get every plane to safety. This disaster is a result of multiple years of executive failure Such as Failing to design a hangar strong enough to withstand a cat 4 hurricane Failure to have parts on hand, The F-22’s shouldn’t have been used for training if they weren’t going to have maintenance parts unavailable Failure in having so much critical aircraft located at a base prone to hurricanes Companies like Microsoft, Apple etc all have contingency plans in case of say a Earthquake or a hurricane etc… to save as much equipment as possible and to restart ASAP State and local governments are supposed to have contingency plans to deal with earthquakes and hurricanes to get streets clear, and water and electricity running. No excuses, can you imagine a corporate executive being admonished for failing to produce goods because his supplier ran into problems? Can you imagine how ridiculous it looks when he had years to plan for backup suppliers, or to stockpile parts in case of a supplier shortage?
Yes they can be trucked out and transported People move big things all the time and there are many things bigger than a plane Its called having a contingency plan and planning for it Especially in Florida They had years and years to create a plan that could be operated in short notice to get every plane to safety. This disaster is a result of multiple years of executive failure Such as Failing to design a hangar strong enough to withstand a cat 4 hurricane Failure to have parts on hand The F-22’s shouldn’t have been used for training if they weren’t going to have maintenance parts unavailable Failure in having so much critical aircraft located at a base prone to hurricanesCompanies like Microsoft Apple etc all have contingency plans in case of say a Earthquake or a hurricane etc… to save as much equipment as possible and to restart ASAP State and local governments are supposed to have contingency plans to deal with earthquakes and hurricanes to get streets clear and water and electricity running. No excuses can you imagine a corporate executive being admonished for failing to produce goods because his supplier ran into problems? Can you imagine how ridiculous it looks when he had years to plan for backup suppliers or to stockpile parts in case of a supplier shortage?
They could’ve been flown out. https://rightsideoutput.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ch53e_01.jpg?w=630
They could’ve been flown out.https://rightsideoutput.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ch53e_01.jpg?w=630
I’ve always liked the acronym, SHITE… shît happens involving touchy equipment. Seems like a typical military SNAFU, doesn’t it?
I’ve always liked the acronym SHITE… shît happens involving touchy equipment. Seems like a typical military SNAFU doesn’t it?”
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If a proper militaristic president had been elected then she would have sent all the aircraft to the middle east and started bombing Iran or something.
Because Trump is a goody twoshoes peacenik the USA isn’t at war anywhere much and so all the aircraft were at home when the hurricane struck.
So it’s his fault.
Definitely poor management and a waste of taxpayers money for not taking evasive action before the storm hit !
Definitely poor management and a waste of taxpayers money for not taking evasive action before the storm hit !
seventeen plus more were in for maintence, if that’s true then why such a large number or more in at one time”’how many of these F22 do we have that are flying at any given time
seventeen plus more were in for maintence if that’s true then why such a large number or more in at one time”’how many of these F22 do we have that are flying at any given time
“Why could they not have trucked them out ”
An F22 weighs 19 000 kg. It is 19 m long. It is 14 m wide.
Does this answer your question?
If you need more working time, remember that there was 1 or 2 days notice and the roads were clogged with everyone else trying to get away. Furthermore the plane is delicate. And highly, HIGHLY secret so that no unauthorised person is allowed to get near it.
Trucking one, just one, across the state would involve weeks of preparation and shutting down entire sections of highway.
why the hell didn’t the AIRforce fly the planes our of there,,like they did at Homestead AFB for hurricane Andrew ???????????????????? Guess a waste of our tax payers money………what a wasteful country we live in
why the hell didn’t the AIRforce fly the planes our of therelike they did at Homestead AFB for hurricane Andrew ????????????????????Guess a waste of our tax payers money………what a wasteful country we live in
They were down for maintenance and were not flyable, storm blew in before they could be made flyable.
They were down for maintenance and were not flyable storm blew in before they could be made flyable.
Evasive action?
Yes, they totally should have their bases on giant legs so the entire military airfield could get up and run away.
Who has what to do with it, you m0ron?
Who has what to do with it you m0ron?
Are you thinking of moving it to the tornado area? The earthquake area? The ice storm area? Where exactly was your idea?
Did you even bother to read the other comments before asking your question? These were the planes that weren’t operational.
If this is the equivalent of losing WW3 then what is everyone worried about? Looks like WW3 would be just a line item in the budget. Not something to be scared of.
You haven’t encountered Matheus yet I take it? He is “special”.
Actually that is not 69% FMC aircraft, that is 29% flight capable aircraft. 🙂
I worked of F-14s, another very maintenance heavy aircraft, and any time we were not deployed we were lucky to be able to maintain 50% flight capable aircraft. F-22s require around 40-50 hours of maintenance wile F-14 as much as 100-120. F-18c/d around 20-35, F-18e/f/g 15-30. The maintenance can vary depending on your squadrons priority for parts. If we were deployed we had to have 100% flight capable aircraft or they would not go, if the squadron was unable to get one jet ready they would get a jet from another squadron, I remember that happening a few times. It really sucks because they always take your best jet and you get stuck fixing jets you never worked on before. If you don’t have the part and have to take it out of another jet that just tripled the maintenance time.
My point is that you can’t really blame the people on the ground, these F-22s were not a priority for parts. To get a real hangar queen to fly you might need as long a month. Here they could not borrow parts from another squadron. And to get all the parts needed they would have had to start getting parts long before they know they were going to need them.
The aircraft left behind were being rebuilt and could not fly
Excellent More money wasted in the military .. Less money to become competitive
Excellent More money wasted in the military .. Less money to become competitive
You had 2 days of warning before it hit, but the storm was detected 5 days before it actually hit
It formed 5 days ago near the pointy part of mexico roughly 1,000 miles away and spent 4 days traveling across water before it hit land on its 5th day
Meteorologists were predicting cat 4 or cat 5 when it was forming due to various instrumentation like barometric pressure, water temperature, air temperature etc…
You do understand English right?
You do have a dictionary right?
You do understand the words “predicted” and “actual” right
You do understand that “predicted” comes before “actual” right
Now for the science
Hurricane’s aren’t magic, they are science they follow scientific laws like conservation of energy and thermodynamics
Thus Meteorologists are able to predict the strength of a hurricane in advance based on doing math, calculating heat flux’s, looking at the water temperature, looking at the change in water temperature, looking at the barometric pressure, looking at wind speed, looking at barometric pressure change and wind speed change over time.
And they predicted right when the Storm was forming that it could go up to cat 4 or 5
the storm then took roughly 4 days of traveling over water before it hit inland
No it was a cat 2 and then went to cat 4 over a 24 hour period.
But Meteorologist were predicting that it would be cat 4 or 5, 5 days in advance so they predicted that it had a strong chance of becoming cat for or cat 5 when it was still a cat 1 hurricane
Hurricane’s aren’t magic, they are science they follow scientific laws like conservation of energy and thermodynamics
Thus Meteorologists are able to predict the strength of a hurricane in advance based on doing math, calculating heat flux’s, looking at the water temperature, looking at the change in water temperature, looking at the barometric pressure, looking at wind speed, looking at barometric pressure change and wind speed change over time.
A hurricane literally unleashes the energy equivalent of hundreds of atomic bombs per hour
I’m looking at this from a purely operational readiness stand point. I understand that it would be a huge hit to the economy that is already hard hit. This is the same argument used every time a military base closes then the developers move in…
These rates would not be accepted in SAC
Such a sad state for the up and running rate on the F22 . Could it be we need better funding from Congress ? This rate of being prepared would have never been accepted in SAC !
No, but if 17 F22s were down for maintenance out of the 55 stationed there, that’s a 69% FMC rate and is abysmal. Never in my fighter world experience were we at that low of a rate. Not saying that these should have just been flown out but if they truly had 17 code 3 aircraft, they need to seriously look at their maintenance capabilities.
why when the funs really about to begin
They should seriously consider abandoning the base and move to another. Further in land?
A cat 4 hurricane doesn’t magically spring up overnight
A cat 4 hurricane starts as a cat 1, and it slowly speeds up over many days to 150mph+ winds
Meteorologists started predicting a cat 4 or a cat 5 4 days before the base was hit
Yes they can be trucked out and transported
People move big things all the time, and there are many things bigger than a plane
Its called having a contingency plan and planning for it
Especially in Florida
They had years and years to create a plan that could be operated in short notice to get every plane to safety.
This disaster is a result of multiple years of executive failure
Such as
Failing to design a hangar strong enough to withstand a cat 4 hurricane
Failure to have parts on hand, The F-22’s shouldn’t have been used for training if they weren’t going to have maintenance parts unavailable
Failure in having so much critical aircraft located at a base prone to hurricanes
Companies like Microsoft, Apple etc all have contingency plans in case of say a Earthquake or a hurricane etc… to save as much equipment as possible and to restart ASAP
State and local governments are supposed to have contingency plans to deal with earthquakes and hurricanes to get streets clear, and water and electricity running.
No excuses, can you imagine a corporate executive being admonished for failing to produce goods because his supplier ran into problems? Can you imagine how ridiculous it looks when he had years to plan for backup suppliers, or to stockpile parts in case of a supplier shortage?
They could’ve been flown out.
https://rightsideoutput.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ch53e_01.jpg?w=630
I’ve always liked the acronym, SHITE… shît happens involving touchy equipment. Seems like a typical military SNAFU, doesn’t it?
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Definitely poor management and a waste of taxpayers money for not taking evasive action before the storm hit !
seventeen plus more were in for maintence, if that’s true then why such a large number or more in at one time”’how many of these F22 do we have that are flying at any given time
why the hell didn’t the AIRforce fly the planes our of there,,like they did at Homestead AFB for hurricane Andrew ????????????????????
Guess a waste of our tax payers money………what a wasteful country we live in
They were down for maintenance and were not flyable, storm blew in before they could be made flyable.
Who has what to do with it, you m0ron?
Excellent
More money wasted in the military .. Less money to become competitive