Missed Aubrey on Rogan During the Pandemic

I missed Aubrey de Grey talking to Joe Rogan in February. I was traveling and missed this.

Aubrey has promoted that the accumulation of seven types of damage of living are the cause of aging. If we fix the damage of aging extremely well damage then like repairing a car we can massively extend lifespan.

As usual many interesting insights. In the 30-40 minute part of the interview, Aubrey points out the downside of herd mentality for researchers. If many researchers compete in certain fashionable and high profile fields, then they minimize their contribution. They beat some others by days or weeks, instead of making a breakthrough that would otherwise not occur for decades.

This explains some of the importance of Elon Musk. The breakthroughs in space or electric cars might not have happened for many decades without Elon creating SpaceX or Tesla.

Around the 50 minute mark, Aubrey answers the question about how we can fix the environment and increase the carrying capacity of the earth.

Global aquaculture increased 527% from 1990-2018. We eat more farmed fish than wild fish.

We will still only get older one year at a time. Impossible to have 200-year-old people before 2100. Impossible to have 300-year-old people before 2200.

At about one hour, Aubrey talks his expectation within 3-5 years there will be a rapid shift in public expectation in longevity. The lab and clinical research will get to the point that experts will be willing to say radical longevity is achievable. Major media will then trumpet it. The public will then change their beliefs.

Aubrey and Joe think education and curiosity can replace work in society. There are infinite interesting things to learn and experience and explore.

I think goes back to the question of why do scientists hop into a hot research field to be one of five thousand people doing the same thing? It is for competition and recognition. People are still playing chess even when computers are better at chess.

Timestamps for the Video

1:01 Latest discoveries about aging
1:45 What causes aging: Everything breaks down eventually
3:00 Young bodies self-repair better than older (40 years+)
4:14 Aubrey’s lucky because he naturally ages less
5:10 Aubrey’s drinking and pot preferences
8:15 Drinking advice
8:45 He enjoys Punting (rowing boats with a stick)
9:45 His daily routine
10:22 How do we reverse aging
13:00 His damage-repair approach to anti-aging
14:57 Current clinical trials for Parkinsons and toxic senescent cells
16:40 Stem cells for natural aging and body decline vs for injuries
17:40 Stem Cells for Parkinsons
22:28 Parkinsons research still needs 17 years; better funding will make it go faster
26:58 People who are pro-aging
27:21 Aging is a medical problem, not a disease
29:39 Stem cells and Other therapy approaches
32:35 History of why he does this – because nobody else was doing it
41:40 Pro-agers; hypnotist story
46:30 What about overpopulation if nobody ages? Technology will solve
49:47 Fixing the ocean’s issues
52:55 Lab-grown fish and meat
53:52 No countries except Nigeria have high fertility rates
55:12 What to expect in the future when people start living longer
1:11:26 Anti-aging will go mainstream in 3-5 years
1:12:30 Statins (solutions for heart risks)
1:13:47 CRISPR (gene editing)
1:18:32 Medical tourism
1:23:00 Anti-aging therapies have a cancer risk
1:24:30 fasting benefits
1:25:50 Drugs that trick the body into thinking it’s fasting
1:26:50 fasting helps short-lived species more than humans
1:28:46 Centegenerian have one thing in common – lack of stress
1:31:00 Excersize
1:32:00 Wish he could do more advocacy
1:32:30 Joe invites him to use a sensory depravation tank
1:33:18 What needs to be done in the next 17 years?
1:34:40 People who ask him how long he wants to live
1:36:18 Technology avances are exciting, yay
1:38:22 AI fears

73 thoughts on “Missed Aubrey on Rogan During the Pandemic”

  1. A lot of old people are bitter by the end of their life. Your argument that centennials are happy at old age is meaningless. There is a significant research, not done by doctors that shows that people who live a happy life in strong communities live longer. I have already brought it here several times.

    I don’t think that you have much of chance to get to a beyond a 100 life span living a miserable life even if you have a strong genetic background. I don’t know that it has been researched though. I don’t know from the research above How much content life plays in over centennial longevity, I would not be surprised if it is more significant than genetics.

  2. Interesting hypothesis. Also, while completely different, gout was the “Rich person’s disease”. Mostly because of heavy consumption of ethanol and protein-based meats that lead to the accumulation of urate byproducts within joints.
    Puts things into perspective. I respect “health of antiquity” in many cases. While they certainly did the best with what they had, ocassionally they got something right.

  3. Yea, so I am an MD who specialized in pathology.
    Your cell lines will remain stable since most of the immune cells[ I assume these are the ones you are talking about] are usually “holed up” in places like lymph nodes, thymus and bone marrow. While lymphocytes themselves can literally last a lifetime, they are polyclonal; you will see many copies of the same line that has been immunologically stimulated. So losing a few in the blood from donation isn’t an issue. The main cellular consituents of the blood, unless you have leukemia, will be erythrocytes and neutrophils; neither of which are particularly unique between one another.

  4. They interview people after they are already quite old. And find they are happy and calm. But that is a trick of the brain. The part of the brain that generates fears, mistrust, reminds us of all our failures and such starts to wear out, so they get happy. And people who investigate the old say, “Wow, look how happy they are…that must be why they lived so long.” They did not interview them 50 years earlier. Or see if their 70 year old children are giddy…and check back in on them 30-40 years later.

    And the older you get, the more that age is attributable to genes. I just read some study where after 104, genes accounted for 85% of the chance of reaching that age. They had identified 300+ genes that were involved. Just searched, but I could not find that, but I found another with the same gist: https://www.bu.edu/sph/2015/03/26/study-finds-role-of-genes-is-greater-as-people-live-to-older-ages/

    Of course this is without the longevity tricks we now have or likely now have (not proven in humans): periodic/intermittent fasting/low protein near fasting, senolytics, low advanced glycation end products dieting, HIIT exercise and other mitochondria renewal techniques, telomere extension, NAD+ boosting, metformin, powerful antioxidants and others.

  5. Yes, so there’ll be fewer consistent exercise/diet people than ones in the market for life extension. Which was my point.

  6. It isn’t a matter of “This is the 18th world ending crisis I’ve lived through. The world will have forgotten all about it in 5 years like always.”?

  7. They don’t need to do it consistently to be in the market for life extension treatments. They just need to be motivated for long enough to go through the treatments.

  8. That’s my point. Normal people aren’t really affected.
    But the people who write major newspaper opinion columns are. The people who direct and produce hollywood movies are. The people who teach at major universities, and teach the people who teach at second level universities. National level politicians and their speechwriters. THEY are affected, and they set the tone of our international cultural conversation about such things.

  9. I’ve read a theoretical analysis where people looked at the typical health issues of the renaissance to early modern period, and concluded that blood letting probably helped a fair few of them, at least to relieving the symptoms, enough to get a solid reputation as “good for what ails you”.

    eg. (The only example I remember) High blood pressure, likely among the pheasant, pork, and pie eating upper classes where salt was the only condiment, would lead to dizziness and headaches. Drain out a litre of blood and you feel much better, until the body restores volume and electrolyte balance after a day.

  10. While this does seem like an easy win, that doesn’t discount all the interesting work that spawned from the vampire mouse blood study (partially fueled by vampire VC like Peter Thiel ). Notably they did find older people produced less NAD+, so boosting that does have merit. Adding NMN/NAD+ directly to the replacement saline/albumin might be a valid strategy, though I wonder how often you need to do the blood thinning/replacement?

  11. Of course there are many reasons for being unhealthy. But happy fulfilled life with a reasonable life style will go a very long way and has been shown to be the number one factor in life expectancy when all other parameters are reasonably taken care for. The notion of taking care of one biochemical parameter at a time complies very well with materialistic science but has its limits as it entails a very limited understanding of health.

  12. I am just repeating what I read…or I think I am. This is not a typical way people die. But if we are going to live a long time, the leading causes of death will also change. I haven’t been able to find the autopsy results from Sarah Knauss, that I read on some website years ago. I think they omitted her name which makes tracking this down especially difficult. But, as the age of the person was 119, there are not a lot of people it could be. Add to that that we know her major organs were donated to science. I recall that her brain and arteries were healthy. I am not a medical doctor, so I don’t understand what they were saying precisely. It might have had something to do with macrophages.
    The things that kill the very old are not the same things that kill everyone else. A bunch of them die of the effects of the accumulation of transthyretin, for example. Not a whole lot of research into these things, because there are so few people dying of these things.
    The idea that if we cure the top say 15 biologic causes of death we will live to 130+ is really not very likely. There will just be a new set of diseases most of which we have never heard of. Compare what 70-74 year olds are dying of compared to those over 100 years old: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/LCWK1_2015.pdf
    There is overlap but the distribution is very different. The #1 cause of death in the 70-74 people who died was cancer (Malignant neoplasms). That kiled 32% of those that died. But only 4.1% of the over100.

  13. Besides the apheresis, like I mentioned below, it almost brings to thought that blood letting all those years ago WAS actually beneficial to your health.

    As were leaches, though because they produce a potent anti-coagulant [one of which is used as a thrombolytic in some severe strokes].

  14. I guess you are only talking about shortened lives. I thought we were talking life extension. Though, even so, someone can eat terrible crap with insufficient nutrients for decades, smoke tobacco or other rubbish, drink gallons of vodka and no amount of meditation or happy thoughts will halt or undo that damage. It is often true that some of that is self-medicating and arguably would not be needed, if the mind was well cared for.
    At the same time, people can eat very unhealthy things, and not realize it. Without modern science, people would not know that even some foods eaten for millennia are less than ideal.

  15. Frankly, if we can use half a ton of crap fish to get a full ton of good fish, it’s a good deal.

    And I bet we’re pulling up the crap fish in the nets as bycatch when we hunt more valuable fish anyway, so they were always going to die and be turning to some side product regardless. Turning them into salmon makes sense to me.

  16. Prime real-estate will always be at a premium (maybe unless we all upload into VR – but maybe even there). But it’s a luxury, not a necessity. For the majority of “normal” people, there’s plenty of room at urban densities, esp if we build high (or deep). The trend is toward urbanization, and the more people move to high(er) density urban areas, the more room is left for people who prefer less dense areas.

    In the longer run, there’ll be even more room with seasteading and space settlements.

  17. There’s a biological mechanism that reduces sexual attraction towards immediate family. I forget what it was called. But that too is broken if the family is separated, and meets again years later.

    It doesn’t work as well with more distant relatives. But then again, there isn’t as much of a problem when mating with distant relatives, genetically speaking. It’s more of a cultural bias at that point.

  18. There are different levels, I suppose. And let’s be honest, how many of the ones that do “diet and exercise” do that consistently for years on end? I’m not talking about the ones that do it for a while, then stop, then do it for a while more, and so on.

  19. Meanwhile 500 million fall into dire poverty due to a world-wide recession and see a dramatic drop in life expectancy. Take a look at the guy: why would you believe a word he says, he’s as mad as a hatter.

  20. Better senolytics than dastinib + quercetin will be available in the next 10 years hopefully. Even dastinib + quercetin removed 25% of senescent cells in human skin and fat in small human trial. I don’t know how gung ho you are off labling Brett, but you might want to give that a go in a few years if better options still aren’t available.

  21. Well, there’s this: http://bit.ly/Riverarch
    if we can get approval. Currently raising seed money to campaign and pass the legal requirements, which are pretty onerous. The RiverArch would house or provide workspace for >21,000 people, and not displace anyone. More details in the comments section of the video or in the 133-page presentation for accredited investors.

  22. Orange roughy should be banned from fishing. Those fish are often over 100 years old and some are over 150. They do not grow fast. That makes them a terrible choice for fishing. I suppose they could force sellers to use their real name: “slimehead”. How many people are going to buy slimehead?

  23. Most people manage not to get it on with their “hottie” daughters and sons. And I don’t think that is a particularly high bar, even in most trailer parks.

  24. Good luck with those roots and herbs…and deluding yourself into health. 
    So, is aging in animals different, or are they using their minds wrong too? Those nematodes…always with the selfish thoughts. Corrupt fruit flies? Perverted mice? I wonder how the scientists managed to get them to reflect on their shortcomings and correct their ways to get them to live so long.

  25. One other thing: The reason centenarians and other elderly seem so unphased by stress and happy in general (called the “aging paradox” or “happiness U-curve), is because the part of their brains that makes them worry and such (the amygdala) looses function just as other areas decline. Wear and tear, I supose.

    Cause and effect switched.

    Couldn’t find the article though.

  26. I think you have to look at the supplement market. Taking pills is easy. Exercising regularly, turning down a hotdog grilled by their neighbor? Passing the ice cream isle, with kids jumping up and down begging for Rocky Road, when you want it as much as they do? Not so easy.
    There are always people who see no point in planning for any potentially negative event. Or people who have trouble restraining themselves from anything not illegal, that is beckoning them.

  27. Bring out the leaches, you say? 🙂

    I think I would definitely do it the way they did it. I do have minor reservations. I would want to retain the diversity of my white blood cells because these cell lines can become fewer and fewer, and that, if I recall, is what killed the second oldest person ever verified…who actually might be the oldest.
    I would donate less but more frequently to try to maintain that diversity on the assumption that the blood works at maintaining this diversity, and can deal with minor losses bunch better than large ones.

  28. cont. IGF-1 can do for human health.
    4: The cancer-telomere extension connection fear, turned out to be wrong. Extending telomeres just made more healthy cells and the natural defense mechanisms were less taxed so they could go after the precancerous and cancerous cells. There is just no evidence that extending telomeres hurts a thing. Though it is not a panacea either. The main advantage is that it helps the immune system. They sell stuff that extends telomeres. The people taking this are not dying like flies of cancer.
    5: The greatest achievements by AI are not achieved with our data sets. The best is when we give it the simple unassailable rules and it makes its own data and learns from that. I also don’t think AI is a threat. It has no desires of its own. It is a nonentity. A flea has more understanding of other minds, will, and drive. The primary dangers of AI are in reflecting the will of its programmer…or encountering a hole in its learning…in a critical situation.

  29. There are clearly areas I would disagree with him on. 1: His health. He is deluding himself, or people are feeding him rubbish, saying he looks young. And it is not the beard. Drink a few beers every day, and your health is going to be crap. Walking around an airport with a bag one out of 10 days, is not sufficient exercise. Though exercise can certainly be overdone. And treating your body like crap and being a longevity expert is a little like being 400 lb ball of lard and a Yoga instructor, or personal fitness trainer. It just does not help credibility. If you want to live a long time, you can’t expect a magic treatment to do all the work. You have to give it the best chance by meeting it partway. I’d say he looks at least 5 years older than he is…especially as he grew up in England, and did not have too many opportunities to get that much sun damage when young.
    2: He repeatedly said that they had not found new ways we age, that it was understood. This is untrue. He may be able to fit them into his little categories, but that is not the same thing.  It is a little like saying a landslide and a meteorite impact are the same thing because you lumped them together in the category of “rocks falling on people”. If you solve one, you are not terribly likely to solve the other by chance, just because you chose to put them in the same category.
    3: He plays down fasting and conflates it with calorie restriction. No mention of IGF-1, and what temporarily reducing…

  30. Fish aint fish.

    They catch cheap, rubbish fish that don’t have commercial value, ie. people don’t particularly like eating them, and use those to grow fish that people DO like to eat.

  31. I’ve come to the conclusion that we really are short of one resource, and one resource only.

    And all the complaints and fear mongering about overpopulation, peak selenium (or whatever this week’s issue is) etc. are really just floundering around trying to come up with a socially acceptable proxy for the real issue that concerns people.

    There isn’t enough land space in the fashionable centres of the top 20 cool and desirable cities in the world.

    Note: It’s the “top 20” part that’s the real killer. We can’t just make 1000 cool cities. No, everyone (or at least, everyone with significant social and cultural influence) wants to be in one of the top 20 or so. If everyone else isn’t perfectly aware of the place you live, if movies aren’t set there, rock songs don’t mention it by name, modern literature isn’t based around it… then you might as well be living in a dirt hole in the bush.

    The walkable centre of Paris. Not Marseilles. Not Calais. Nobody (who counts) wants to live there. New York. Not Orlando.

    Sydney, Tokyo, London. Not Wollongong or Bristol or Kobe. It has to be one of the cool, famous places.

    And THAT’s why they go on and on about there being too many people.

  32. Yes, it’s a very, bad idea to have some (presumably government) organisation deciding who is and is not “worthy” of having a longer life.

    Do you want to turn into a fascist hellstate? Or just willing to have that as an acceptable side effect?

  33. What’s funny is that you can easily check this in humans. Replacing the blood with albumin and saline? Done all the time on apheresis patients that have a high enough fibrinogen not to require replacement plasma/cryoprecipitate. All you need is a surrogate for healthy status [maybe GFR or creatinine, long term?] to see how it turns out.

  34. Exercise and healthy eating require consistent effort. Not easy for most people.

    Let’s not exaggerate things here. Yes, we have a big proportion of the population who can’t be bothered eating well and getting exercise. But it’s hardly a tiny minority who DO bother looking after themselves.

    I’d say that more than half the people I know fall into the “diet and exercise” side of the divide.

  35. Preventing the damage is what needs to be worked on, mainly with a smarter wholesome medicine. We have to start accepting the evidence that disease starts with our consciousness and its relation to itself and the world around it.

  36. Overpopulation from longevity is a non-issue. Longevity is equivalent to reducing the death rate. The global death rate is already low, so even if it drops to zero, there will only be a mild increase in population growth. Mild enough that it may be offset by current birth rate reduction trends, let alone by effects like what you describe.

    (In the long run, we’re not limited to Earth anyway, but that’s an argument that’s difficult for people to accept given the current state of space development. And it’s not a necessary argument either.)

    As it is, “over”population is a management problem, not a numbers problem. We have enough resources available. But we don’t manage them well, which leads to the illusion of scarcity. Just as an example, the total solar power available on Earth is 10000 times(!) more than all the power we produce, globally – more than enough for full recycling, clean industry, desalination, and all our other needs.

  37. The angle really shouldn’t be longevity, but rather healthspan. The same is true both for marketing and for FDA approval. It’s much easier and faster to demonstrate slowing or reversal of disease than to demonstrate longevity. Once these treatments start to show results, you may find there is more demand than you think. Nobody wants to have arthritis, heart problems, Alzheimer’s, and so on.

    There is significant incentive for governments and health insurance to subsidize such treatments, because the alternative is expensive. There’s a lot to gain in saved medical costs and increased productivity. So these may become widely available through preventative medicine packages. Just as today your doctor will refer you to various cancer screenings to catch it early, tomorrow he may refer you to a SENS treatment.

    You are right that the ease and convenience are important. But at least some of these treatments may be as simple as a pill or injection. For example, senolytics and gene therapy. Others, such as stem cell therapy, may be more invasive, but maybe not by much. A local anesthetic and a few deep injections, perhaps.

    The current options you mention aren’t quite as convenient as you suggest. Exercise and healthy eating require consistent effort. Not easy for most people. Cosmetic surgery is expensive and risky. And all three give limited results. None of them can offer what SENS may, if it works.

  38. Have you seen this? : https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/06/15/diluting-blood-plasma-rejuvenates-tissue-reverses-aging-in-mice/
    Turns out in those sewed together mice, the thinning of the blood plasma in the older mouse was the real source of the increased health of the older mouse in the mouse experiment. I think this is terrific. That should be much cheaper to do than adding young blood…and less creepy. All they did is remove some blood plasma, add saline and albumin and got the same or better effects.

  39. This is a big problem, but solvable. One potential approach is to farm insects as fish feed (an industry that is just starting to scale). Other option is to use genetically engineered algae to supplement fish feedstocks. Then there is the longer term approach of just directly culturing fish tissue (lab grown meat companies are working on this too).

  40. Sounds like a non-problem if I ever heard one. Your great, great, great, great grandmother is not related enough to you to present a problem from a reproductive standpoint. You would share <1% common genetic material. It is quite common for second cousins (or even cousins) to marry in some countries, and the genetic problems are not as dire as you might think.

  41. I think a strong motivator for having children is to have someone who you can rely on in your old age.

    It is also not clear that we need to be worried about population in the very long term. Technology can help us reduce the load we are placing on the world’s ecosystems. It’s a shame we’re having to fight with people who want things to stay the same, even if it means leveling mountains to dig up coal to burn.

  42. I think deciding who is ‘worthy’ of life extension (aka medical treatment) is a rather bad idea. All medical treatment is intended to either extend life or improve quality of life. There is no special class of ‘life extension’ medicine. Life extension will happen as a consequence of medical advances. Only way it won’t is if we decide we don’t care about the suffering and infirmity of old people, which I see no evidence of. Lots of money is being devoted to diseases of old age, such as heart disease, cancer, Alzheimers, stroke, etc. It is just the approaches being pursued may not be very effective. Aubrey is suggesting a different paradigm. It will remain to be seen if it is fruitful–there are initial positive signs that this approach will provide medical benefits, and maybe as a side effect life extension.

  43. As it turns out, what Aubrey is talking about should/will necessarily have to be able to resolve chronic illness like heart disease and dementia (Alzheimers, etc.). So solving these are necessary if not sufficient part of his goal.

    Gene therapy is not all that unpleasant or difficult. It is quite pricey due to the cost of making the active ingredient ($50k-$100k), but the cost will come down rapidly.

    I doubt most of this will feasibly be achieved with surgical-type interventions. It will be drugs and gene therapy to be scalable.

  44. If the main contributor to shortening life span is stress, this is what research should focus on rather on one on one biochemical response to medical problems.

  45. One way to fix this is to have everyone older than 120 years live off world. Make Earth a nursrey world and have the adults live out in the Universe. You can come back to visit but not stay.

  46. I’m aware of the practices of the industry, as with anything, it’s a pretty wide spectrum. In most locales, there is usually little info at the point of sale to differentiate the source and their practices. The safest bet for supermarkets, deep sea and factory trawler frozen and never “fresh”. When traveling, I’m even wary of local coastal fresh catches depending on the level of local regulation. The countries along my usual vacation circuit could really use a lot more job killing regulations, you can never have too much.

  47. As for population growth, I’m willing to bet it grinds to virtual halt if people are biologically immortal. Right now, people have children within a time frame of roughly twenty years because of fertility and to be able to live long enough to raise children to adulthood. Also, we have children, in part, as immortality by proxy-“We don’t live forever but maybe our genes do” line of thought. Biological immortality takes away that ticking clock. Women given biological immortality can freeze their eggs and embryos and come back 2000 years later and have them implanted later (assuming they can’t be kept fertile for millennia with the same medical technology that extended their life in the first place). The same with men with biological immortality. And why have immortality by proxy through offspring when you can personally be immortal (or at least as close to it as medical technology would allow anyway since biological immortality only removes aging and disease as factors causing death and not make you completely invulnerable like Superman).

  48. So what you’re saying is that the only way to solve these issues is DEATH?!? As solutions to pressing issues like your great, great grandmother looking younger and hotter than your current gf goes, death is kinda permanent, a bit overkill, and not really healthy for you or your great, great grandmother. I’d rather deal with that awkward situation than being dead by 80 or younger.

  49. I’d certainly like to be optimistic about this; I’m 61, and actuarially I might have another 20 years. 

    But at the least I want my son to be spared aging. There’s really nothing to be said for it, save that it beats the only currently available alternative.

  50. Did they discuss in society repercussions if/ when 5 generations of the same family all look like 30/40 year olds?

    How would your relationship be with your great great great grandmother, if she looked the same age as you?

    She is so far removed from you that you can barely consider her a relative.

    What about your grandmother that looks your age and is a hottie?

    I think the Commonwealth Saga books by Peter Hamilton delve more and better at some of these issues than many academics.

  51. I agree. even though we can’t really control who and even if the most noble people achieve extended healthy lives, if available – i do believe that if the tech does start to emerge that it will be a grey/black market scenario, under questionable oversight, managed by unregulated medical(?) professionals/ clinics that are by ‘invitation only’ – high-risk medical tourism. The first procedures will be intrusive, disruptive, demand endless time and money by the Client, and will have unpredictable and changing results – but through that uncertainty and lucky connections and access to resources, the first 150 year-old is alive now. I think that if someone will be chronologically or health-level-equivalent of a 50-year-old in the next 15 – 20 years, I think that that 10% that is part of the top G7 income/ wealth 10% will realize another 15 – 20 years of healthy living – driving until 120, outdoor sports until 110. Also, don’t forget that cryo will be a greatly improved ‘roll of the dice’ in the next 10 – 20 years. The odds keep getting better, but it will be money, luck, and perseverence for the first few.

  52. While I think you’re right about most people not putting forth the effort required (even if minimal) to achieve radical longevity, or even healthy aging, the important thing to focus on is who that 1% will be. Will it be the proverbial “1%” who control the most wealth? The most intelligent 1%? The most valuable 1%? We can exert some control over who has access, by controlling incentives, to ensure that the right 1% stays young. Think of how much better society would be if every Einstein was guaranteed another 50+ years of productivity. Or think of: the immortal Mary Poppins. If the perfect nanny could care for generations of a wealthy family’s children, that would be of great value.
    As far as “essential” labor goes, muscle won’t play a role. While it would be great to keep an ideal laborer around another 50 years, they’re too easily replaced by young workers. A worker with excellent intelligence or personality traits, though, would be well worth keeping strong.
    We also need to think about black market availability, DIY labs. Hacker types (high intelligence, low respect for authority) are going to try and find ways to use this tech themselves–they already are–and the online underground is a great way to distribute resources to people who have the intelligence and creativity but not necessarily wealth or social skills to acquire them through traditional channels. I say let hackers experiment on themselves and see what happens.

  53. It really does depend on the fish farm. I know of some that are doing a great job to be almost totally disconnected from the wild food chain while replicating it in a closed environment to produce healthy seafood – but certainly that is not the norm yet.

  54. “until humanity creates better animals, better ecosystems, better Nature.” This can only be done in a large or long term way in O’Neill Space. Period.

  55. I think that Aubrey is in for a shock when he realizes that the Market for longevity will not be as big as he thinks – witness ‘used’ gym memberships, cosmetic surgery, healthy eating-living’ – all easy, cheap, and available but used by single-digit percentage numbers. And I bet the ‘process’ will not be easy, comfortable, or cheap for the first several decades. People just don’t care enough. I am not convinced that even half of the people alive today are happy enough to just ‘keep it going for another 50 years’.
    I think Aubrey is in for a shock when he realizes the labour, cost, and effort required to achieve meaningful healthy life extension will be greater than what is being utilized for covid, over many decades – and that is an immediate, noble, and widespread threat, realized and recognized widely. When comparing life extension investment vs food scarcity, malaria, the new coming covids/ sars, and just basic heart disease and dementia – the pie is just not big enough to attract wealth, scientists, and world-loving angel investors.
    That being said, a private, evil-scientist-type set-up with top ‘special’ people given unlimited resources and facilities driven by secretive sponsors and undertaken in an environment free of FDA regulations, press, and peer review/ scorn/ competition might do something that leads to small supply that may make it out to limited run, that may make it out to a foreign low-regulation dispersement, that may be recognized by big pharma and out

  56. Yes
    There is a lot about the fish farming industry that looks like an environmental disaster. This is true for high-end Norwegian Salmon down to small fish farms along the rivers in Asia. If one searches YouTube, one will find some worrying investigative journalistic output on the subject.
    WARNING ! – if you look at those films, you will probably not eat farmed fish again. I haven’t for years.

  57. insect meal is an ideal substitute of fish meal (ground wild fish); we could farm insects and feed them with food waste.

  58. yeah, but that’s just the current state of technology – if true. Wild Fish (or wild anything) are not sacred. We eat what we want – better to have full choice of flesh gorging but still maintain a diverse and robust eco-system of fish, game, whatever (even the not immediately tasty) – at least until humanity creates better animals, better ecosystems, better Nature.

  59. Global aquaculture increased 527% from 1990-2018. We eat more farmed fish than wild fish.

    Globally, aquaculture consumes about half a metric ton of wild fish to produce one metric ton of farmed fish.

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