US-China Splitting Internet, Technology and Business into East and West Blocs 2.0

The US State Department has a broader action on technology from China that is banning apps and is part of a US-China split of the internet, technology and business world into the China side and the US side.

The Tik Tok and WeChat executive orders are only a small part.

India and China have a small border war in 2020. India has also taken action to ban Chinese apps and Chinese technology companies.

During the first Cold War between the US and the Soviets, the world was split into the eastern and western blocs.

Above is the map of the eastern and western blocs of the first cold war.

Curing the first Cold War the Western Bloc, also known as the Capitalist Bloc, was a coalition of countries that were allied with the United States, a member of NATO, and/or opposed the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact during the Cold War. The latter were referred to as the Eastern Bloc.

The first phase of the first Cold War began immediately after the end of the Second World War in 1945. The United States created the NATO military alliance in 1949 in the apprehension of a Soviet attack and termed their global policy against Soviet influence containment. The Soviet Union formed the Warsaw Pact in 1955 in response to NATO. Major crises of this phase included the 1948–49 Berlin Blockade, the 1927–50 Chinese Civil War, the 1950–53 Korean War, the 1956 Suez Crisis, the Berlin Crisis of 1961 and the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. The USSR and the US competed for influence in Latin America, the Middle East, and the decolonizing states of Africa and Asia.

Wikipedia has an entry describing the still not universally agreed outline of Coldwar 2.0.

Dividing the Global Internet in Cold War 2.0

China has had its Great Firewall started in 1998. The first part of the GFW (great firewall) lasted eight years and was completed in 2006. The second part began in 2006 and ended in 2008. On 6 December 2002, 300 people in charge of the GFW project from 31 provinces and cities throughout China participated in a four-day inaugural “Comprehensive Exhibition on Chinese Information System”. At the exhibition, many western high-tech products, including Internet security, video monitoring and human face recognition were purchased. Aside from the social control aspect, the Great Firewall also acts as a form of trade protectionism that has allowed China to grow its own internet giants, such as Tencent, Alibaba, and Baidu. China has its own version of many foreign web properties, for example: Tencent Video (YouTube), Tencent Weibo (Twitter), Qzone (Facebook), WeChat (WhatsApp), Ctrip (Orbitz and others), Zhihu (Quora). With nearly one quarter of the global internet population (700 million users), the internet behind the GFW can be considered a “parallel universe” to the Internet that exists outside.

Google China’s search engine was launched in 2006 and pulled from mainland China in 2010 amid a major hack of the company and disputes over censorship of search results.

The United States Trade Representative’s (USTR) “National Trade Estimate Report” published in March 2016 referred the China’s digital Great Firewall: “China’s filtering of cross-border Internet traffic has posed a significant burden to foreign suppliers.” NOTE: President Trump was not inaugurated until January 20, 2017.

Claude Barfield, the American Enterprise Institute’s expert of International trade, suggested that the U.S. government should bring a case against the Firewall, a huge trade barrier, in the World Trade Organization in January 2017. 8 of the 24 more trafficked websites in China have been blocked by The Great Firewall.

The US Clean Network program has five categories of action.

The US Clean Network are as follows:

* Clean Carrier: To ensure untrusted People’s Republic of China (PRC) carriers are not connected with U.S. telecommunications networks. Such companies pose a danger to U.S. national security and should not provide international telecommunications services to and from the United States.
* Clean Store: To remove untrusted applications from U.S. mobile app stores. PRC apps threaten our privacy, proliferate viruses, and spread propaganda and disinformation. American’s most sensitive personal and business information must be protected on their mobile phones from exploitation and theft for the CCP’s benefit.
* Clean Apps: To prevent untrusted PRC smartphone manufacturers from pre-installing –or otherwise making available for download – trusted apps on their apps store. Huawei, an arm of the PRC surveillance state, is trading on the innovations and reputations of leading U.S. and foreign companies. These companies should remove their apps from Huawei’s app store to ensure they are not partnering with a human rights abuser.
* Clean Cloud: To prevent U.S. citizens’ most sensitive personal information and our businesses’ most valuable intellectual property, including COVID-19 vaccine research, from being stored and processed on cloud-based systems accessible to our foreign adversaries through companies such as Alibaba, Baidu, and Tencent.
* Clean Cable: To ensure the undersea cables connecting our country to the global internet are not subverted for intelligence gathering by the PRC at hyper scale. We will also work with foreign partners to ensure that undersea cables around the world aren’t similarly subject to compromise.

Momentum for the Clean Network program is growing. More than thirty countries and territories are now Clean Countries, and many of the world’s biggest telecommunications companies are Clean Telcos. All have committed to exclusively using trusted vendors in their Clean Networks.

Techdirt has an article by Mike Masnick which suggests that the US should stay on the side of an open internet and open technology and business world.

There is other analysis that China should not be allowed to steal US technology intellectual property without any effective challenge. All companies try to steal technology. China is better at it. However, this has been mostly one-way technology theft. Cisco and other US technology giants have departments that deal with technology copying from Huawei and other companies for many years to two to three decades.

SOURCES- Wikipedia, US State Department
Written By Brian Wang, Nextbigfuture.com

81 thoughts on “US-China Splitting Internet, Technology and Business into East and West Blocs 2.0”

  1. http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/30/countries-are-incapable-of-friendship/
    Well aware of the arguments, but perhaps, I was channeling my overt pessimism acknowledging that it is a sad world we live in that “The line about sticking with your friends was for schoolchildren” children grow up to be adults where their definition of friendship is governed by self “interests” rather than mutual respect & cooperation where the interests of both nations are advanced. 
    Or perhaps, I’ve watched too much Star Trek films and am longing for a time, as Captain Picard states, where “A lot has changed in the past three hundred years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We’ve eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We’ve grown out of our infancy.”

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  2. Twinky effect (yellow on the outside, white on the inside)…

    I’ve always heard this called “a banana” for the same colour reasons.
    In both Australia and China.
    Of course, we don’t have Twinkys, so the metaphor wouldn’t work. But everyone knows what a banana is. (Though I’ve heard the USA only has one type?)

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  3. What happens when you run out of ‘cheap’ countries to run to

    In that case, the entire world is rich. So we can count that as a WIN.

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  4. “To give a synopsis of Lennon Wall, it is put up on internet when
    authorities try to destroy it *physically*, so the initial comparison is
    apt, if you know that.” The history of Lennon Wall at Hong Kong is that the authorities DID destroy it, physically, only to find out later that it had been carefully documented, then released on the internet. The sort of thing the *grate* firewall will attempt to stop. As to Lennon’s role in the larger context of this post by Brian, “Imagine there’s no countries”. No countries means no firewalls. Did I mention that successful Primal experimenters have a “Live and let live” attitude?

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  5. just wait till they get nano-manufacturing; then, they’ll really cut themselves off from the rest of the world. Then, they’ll cut their own populations. Then, they’re A.I. will go crazy on them in a Forbidden Planet nightmare, and then that will be the end of China . .. and Russia, and Iran, and North Korea.

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  6. Well, thanks for trying to explain, but I still don’t understand. I think you are saying that China’s great firewall will be countered in some way by some sort of grassroots effort that bears some resemblance to (or is inspired by) the Lennon Wall concept, and that you believe China’s great firewall will eventually be overcome by this opposition.

    Certainly it is to be expected that many people react to restrictions by trying to overcome this restrictions, so if that is part of what you are trying to say, I agree with that. I don’t understand how the reference to Lennon Walls is relevant, and I have no idea about whether this opposition will overcome China’s great firewall.

    It seems to me that this is only vaguely related to Brian’s article, so I don’t see why you added it to the discussion. If it is closely related in some way, could you point out what is the relation?

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  7. I strongly suspect that US slowly wants to end NATO due to cost and generally withdrawing from leadership position on the world stage(nothing wrong in that), but from EU perspective it is irrelevant. EU is rich enough and huge enough to create its own hi-tech army, and they just starting doing it.

    Russia tries to meddle in EU of course, but they didn’t achieve anything by doing that so far, nobody cares, everyone in EU sees their games from miles, their pointless acticity only increases their own alienation from rich EU market and potential cooperations in various areas.

    Once again, they are weak and becoming weaker(relative) each passing year
    Maybe some oldtimers in US who grew up in Cold War era still have that mentality, but not people in EU as of 2020. Having some nukes is irrelevant in 2020, modern world. Use them against someone who also have them (EU, US have) and you basically commiting suicide (as a nation).

    China on the other hand is something different, not only they almost caught up in almost everything (most important science and tech) with West, in my opinion they are just starting. You can say that 2020 is year 1 of era from which whole world will be shaken by developments happening in China, mainly in technology and science

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  8. Both having authoritarian governments and lacking democratic institutions just makes China a greater threat to Russia. The reverse isn’t true. China has a long term strategic need for Russia’s resources and Russia is vulnerable because of a declining much smaller population and lack of economic diversification and growth. It’s two thieves living side by side, one with lot’s of stuff the other more powerful one wants. Will they become allies on the basis that they’re both thieves or focus on the fact that they can’t trust each other and one is highly motivated to take the others stuff?

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  9. As a Brazilian, I will say no thanks to becoming <i>anyone’s</i> sweatshop. We’re better off improving education and trying to become a tropical analogue to Belgium or to New Zealand.

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  10. It’s not rediculous. If you get a new chance you can (partly) repay this by adopting the new countrys customs, morals, language and culture. Otherwise, you are greedily taking the “money” but in the process changing the new country in a way that has not been discussed or agreed upon by the inhabitants of the new country, i.e. your benefactors. Assimilating is the least you can do in return for the fresh start. You should also not take welfare, not commit crime a.s.o.

    And before you start going on about providing necessary change and enrichment to a country, let me point out that this can be done through discussion and adoption of better customs. If you, for instance, think that covering a woman in hijab is a great idea, present this as a proposal: “Hey, would it not be great if a percentage of the white daughters in the suburbs wore a hijab all day?”. Well, if there were no takers, then that would be a “no”.

    But don’t bring up your kids to continue this tradition, because then you imposing this behavior on your new country without having discussed this or asked for permission. And please don’t pretend that this is none of their business; it will affect them in both the long and short term.

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  11. As to NATO – again, if you need this explained it is a worrying sign for your cognitive capacity.

    Do you think that Trump’s continuous attacks on NATO members over “fees” as he puts it really comes from any internal opinion on the subject?

    Considering the way in which he has consistently all but kowtowed to Putin and Russia from the very start of his administration, it is pretty clear that his anti NATO rhetoric is no more than a smoke screen leading up to his effecting a withdrawl from it – considering that the US has historically been the lynchpin member of NATO, as much as I hate to admit it as a Brit, a US withdrawl would cripple its effectiveness as a deterrent to others.

    Ukraine is already on the doorstep of NATO countries as you say and very little has been done to prevent Russian aggression in Crimea – if Trump wins the election and takes the US out of NATO then Putin will be emboldened. It may not be the Russia of the cold war, but it has more than enough military might to be far more than a mere annoyance.

    You lack perception of the big picture.

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  12. Oh wow, ignorance doesn’t even cover your perception of current events.

    Russia has no power eh?

    Is that why Great Britain, one of the formerly most powerful nations in Europe did sweet nothing when the Russians were known to have effected a chemical weapon attack on its home soil?

    Sure sure, no power at all, just words in the wind eh?

    As for the EU?

    Well, the fact that I even need to explain this part shows you are either actually Russian and trolling me, or have just been asleep since Brexit started happening in 2016.

    The Russians are not limited to more conventional warfare and have been influencing European affairs for years through a continuous cyber warfare campaign of hacking and electioneering through teams of paid social media trolls and bots.

    Strategies designed chiefly to sow division and mistrust among various EU populaces about the strength and use of the EU itself – and it is clearly working.

    One major member nation is already in the midst of a split, and if even one more follows it will be a dreadful blow to the EU’s future – as evidenced by their clear attempts to induce Britain to stay in the first place.

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  13. The same as always: A new start and new opportunities. Denying who you are and where you came from is ridiculous. We call it tradition.

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  14. What happens when you run out of ‘cheap’ countries to run to or countries that suddenly get strict about worker rights or environmental protections? *That* endgame will come.

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  15. “You ban some silly app which is gathering exactly the same data that FB, Google, YT, Insta and others are”

    The principle difference? FB, Google, YT, and the rest… so long as they’re in the US they can’t hide behind the CCP.

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  16. Well, technically the map is of “the eastern and western blocs of the first cold war” and for a large part of the US-Russian Cold War Iran was on the on side of the United States.

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  17. “Vestigal of democratic system” assumes that the USA was more democratic at some earlier day. What is you proof of that?

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  18. Actually, splitting the internet into two domains may not be so bad. Let the communists of China oppress their own people as long as the west can be free. We can post what we want on the internet and the chinese can be continually “harmonized” by their regime, seeing that we cannot do so much about it….

    And kudos to Trump for starting this process. It’s another good policy that he has implemented.

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  19. Interesting. That definition of “hard core immigrant” was the absolute “middle of the road” immigrant a few decades ago. Indeed, why migrate to any new country is you are intent on remaining in your original country in terms of loyalty, interests, culture, behavior and morals?

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  20. “Brian can do what the heck he pleases with his blog”
    Exactly! 
    So just man up, walk away and don’t cry like a sissy. 
    Start your own blog, in the age of “wokeness” I am sure you will find followers.

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  21. Oh, right, “Never really been tried.”, none of the people in power claiming to be communists were.

    You’re halfway there to understanding communism. True communism IS “a PR move to pacify the populace while the powerful among the regime do somewhat as they like”! That’s the only communism you’re ever going to see, because communism is a con job, and the people who genuinely believe in it are the marks.

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  22. Generally I classify an immigrant as hardcore, when an immigrant pretty much shucks their previous identity and goes all-in on their new home culturally, to the point they are feel occasional shame when their ethnicity is brought up. That’s a lot of personal commitment, above and beyond simply becoming a naturalized citizen. Why they throw away all of their previous national/ethnic identity is naturally varied though, but it can be driven by a deep desire to fit in (which oddly enough is due to collectivist cultural influences from their previous home). The usual rude way of describing the effect regarding asians is the Twinky effect (yellow on the outside, white on the inside)…

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  23. Regardless of whether its a “true” respective alliance or one based on obligation I suspect the “alliances” formed would be similar to that shown in Brian’s map. Whether these alliances remain during a potential conflict is a much harder question to answer. I suspect the old adage of sticking with ones friends has long gone is our current world. Indeed, Trump has recently demonstrated that long-held respective alliances mean very little, as demonstrated by his “America First” policy.

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  24. To give a synopsis of Lennon Wall, it is put up on internet when authorities try to destroy it *physically*, so the initial comparison is apt, if you know that. Hong Kong’s was quite famous. The connection between Primal, Lennon and anti-authoritarianism is quite interesting!

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  25. I’m interested in what makes one a “hardcore immigrant”.
    Is that when you’ve bothered to learn the new language? Or what?

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  26. Assuming of course that Trump is actually in charge of the USA.

    If we assume that the imperialist side of the USA is run by a combination of the deep government bureaucracy, and the media/educational complex, with the office of president as a largely ceremonial remnant of the vestigial democratic system, then the attempts by Trump to change the policies decided on by his “betters” would naturally encounter serious resistance.

    Imagine if Queen Elizabeth decided that she was going to take control of Britain’s foreign policy again and unite the British and Japanese governments by marriage of their respective young royals.

    It would also explain why the president, congress and senate trying to exert their nominal powers is referred to as “attempted coups” by people who occasionally forget that it isn’t yet time to acknowledge the change in government.

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  27. It’s interesting that some of the fallout from this is already causing some walkbacks. 

    Notable were the gaming carveouts since so many gaming companies and apps use the Tencent ecosystem (or the payment systems), or are partially/fully owned by Tencent. I guess the all the screaming from the basement dwellers finally caused something to occur. Apparently League of Legends is a giant money maker for Tencent, and notably that uses phone 2FA logins, so PII is flowing through that.

    One epicly funny outcome is that apparently there was a block of hardcore immigrant chinese/2nd-3rd gen chinese americans supporting Trump via donations and fundraising, who primarily relied on WeChat for their grassroots efforts, so Trump just shot himself in the foot there…

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  28. A number of quite successful “communist” societies have operated through history. Sometimes for a thousand years or more.
    They are all:
    — Small, functioning within a larger economy
    — Religiously based, to keep everyone focused on a non-material goal
    — Open to exit.
    All factors that the foundation of communist governments immediately, violently, rejected. And rejected long before Stalin came to power.
    Stalin wasn’t the cause of communism “going bad”. He was an extreme example of the natural sort of leadership that communism gives rise to, once it is in the form of a national government.

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  29. If the Western democracies were clients of USA, then Trump wouldn’t have a hard time to get us to build our own defense. 🙂

    (He wouldn’t want us to, either.)

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  30. You would also need a satellite broadband supplier who is not based in one of the countries that would lean on them heavily to enforce such isolation.

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  31. Above is the map of the eastern and western blocs of the first cold war.

    Why Brian didn’t bother to do 5 seconds of Google to get a map of the current breakdown? Possibly because it isn’t settled yet, and no matter what version (of the several floating around) that you choose, at least a couple of players will end up swapping sides.

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  32. The fact that you use “the right Stalin” in connection with Communism only goes to display your ignorance on the matter.

    Stalin dramatically shifted the outlay of the earlier communist regime of Russia to a much more totalitarian dictatorship regime under his iron (and not a little psychotically paranoid) grip.

    The so called Communist regimes that spread across the last century do not really represent a truly communist ideology at all – communism does not require a dictator.

    The closest thing to real communism I have ever heard of is Amish communities in the US.

    The rest are just communism as a PR move to pacify the populace while the powerful among the regime do somewhat as they like (so long as they don’t ruffle the feathers of other powerful figures).

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  33. What neighbours?

    Jesus christ, I have a serious visual field defect, but even I can read a friggin map!

    Beyond Belarus and Russia, Ukraine borders 5 other countries – Moldova, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia and Poland.

    To say nothing of a significant coastal area of the Black Sea which borders still more countries.

    And I’m not overestimating Russia, you are underestimating them – unless the Democrats win this election Putin will take his chance to complete the acquisition of Ukraine because the US will not lift a finger to stop him under Trump.

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  34. Ukraine will be in EU in short, medium term, it’s done deal
    Russia is weak, and becoming weaker (relative to EU, West, China) each passing year.
    You’re overestimate them.  I am not sure in medium term if even Belarus want to remain in union with them.

    ” is currently in the process of a slow slide into Ukraine, and likely Ukraine’s neighbours thereafter”

    lol, what neighbours?

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  35. As serious as a form of cancer that it extremely rare. Something about walls of graffiti. Something about primal scream therapy.

    You seem to speak in riddles. I’m a simple, linear-thinking engineer. Can you make your point more clear to engineers?

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  36. It is as serious as heart cancer. Lennon Walls are protest’s focus in many countries. Lennon was Janov’s first “commercial” patient, BTW

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  37. You said: “Somewhat like that idiot that took an iPhone prototype out of work and left it in a public area.”

    If you are referring to the incident I think you are, I believe you have the facts mixed up, at least if my memory about it is correct.

    The “idiot” was part of an Apple testing program to have some of their employees use that prototype iPhone model in their day-to-day lives — an extended usability test, or something like that. I don’t know at what level within Apple that testing program was approved. He was not an idiot going against company rules for taking the prototype out of the lab. I’ll leave it up to others to decide whether he was an idiot for leaving the prototype at the bar, or whether it was Apple who was the idiot to expect none of the employees taking part in that testing to lose the prototype they were testing.

    I am not offering any comment on whether your misunderstanding of that incident affects the overall point of your comments. I am only trying to correct your characterization of the incident with the iPhone prototype that you seem to be referring to.

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  38. China, Iran, Pakistan, NORK, Venezuela, Russia (will have both internets). Some African countries might go with China? Some of the <*>Stan countries like where-the-heck-istan?

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  39. Not sure what the map is meant to represent but i’m pretty sure the US and Iran aren’t on the same side and that the US and India are.

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  40. China semi-collectivism will become increasingly ineffective at making great technological advances, but the ability to re-focus labour, capital, and research will mean wealth and standards of living will continue to be at a world-beating rate, but will always plateau below US and europe per capita. Whether this ‘perceived or indoctrinated fairness’ will continue to motivate the China population is unclear depending on whether they crave ‘individual autonomy’ more than ‘safe and comfortable momentum’. Europe will painfully slowly move innovation forward with barely noticeable productivity/ wealth movement. We are past famines, diseases, wars, etc as being destabilizing to the big 3 regions, who have likely hardened their borders, but outbreaks in the nearby regions could lead to border conflicts. Tech in military and health will accelerate, consumer and space tech will stagnate upwards. Populations will homogenize though politics may continue to fracture with globalization being less important. The 3 inward looking socio-eco powers will develop in distinct paths with vastly reduced input-output among themselves and the other regions. 2025 to 2040 will reveal very different socio-economic systems that have grown on their own – all richer, but less diverse, less tolerant, less open to coordination/ sharing. Align with one of the three or risk being part of a 50% population semi-slum by 2040.

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  41. China no longer has the cheap labor they used to, as can be seen in their slowing growth rates over the last decades. Other countries will be more promising from a cheap labor standpoint.

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  42. If we are talking us vs them, as it seems this ‘conversation’ has descended into: the likelihood that there will be an inward re-focussing of major socio-economic groups will depend primarily on how important international supply-chains remain, the ability of foreign firms to function autonomously, and the ability of the socio-economic entity’s people to prosper and contribute enthusiastically to the area’s goals. I think that the only real 3 groups are US-and-immediate trading partners; China and its annexed regions; and Europe with its loose trading groupings. All other areas are in a state of semi-chaos that can really not grow and develop on their own. I think that if communications, trading, and knowledge-transfer diminished between these 3: the US would likely continue to grow but large industry gaps and huge price swings would follow-innovation would grow, productivity would stagnate, wealth would stagnate. China would grow-with fewer gaps(as they are the entity able to most do it all, if not well) but innovation would stagnate, productivity and wealth would grow. European innovation would grow, productivity and wealth would slightly decline as they least able to ‘do it all’ on their own. In the long-term the US and China become very isolated and politically dysfunctional (more so) and Europe slowly starts to re-integrate with the surrounding regions. The US’s individualism will push increased inequality but major tech industries will realize world-beating advances.

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  43. Everything Russia did then was about their power, too. All that’s happened is that they’re not bothering with the communist rhetoric anymore. Why do you value the pretense, when that’s all it was? Maybe you harbor some idea that communism could actually work if the “right” Stalin was in charge?

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  44. The overall progress of scientific knowledge is achieved through openly published works: you compete on global level with all the labs in the field and if you publish first you won that round. The collective advantage is that anyone can then use your work as basis for their work. Knowledge develops must faster as everyone has access to everyone’s else work. Science/Technology and Knowledge in general that is not publicly available develop slower and at much higher costs because very few are in the loop and can develop solutions or completely new approaches to the problems you are trying to solve. Secrets work only at implementation levels and on short time frames

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  45. Not only is China hell-bent on splitting the internet, China also wants to split the Hindu faith, in order to bring Nepal away from India and into China’s orbit.
    After Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurated a temple for the revered deity Lord Rama at his birthplace in the city of Ayodhya, suddenly Nepal’s communist Prime Minister Oli (China’s new flunky in Kathmandu) has declared he wants to build his own similar temple in Nepal.
    Under Beijing’s tutelage, he may be inclined to build parallel temples for every Hindu deity, from Rama, to Krishna, and so on.
    This is after China and Nepal have announced plans to make Mandarin language classes mandatory for all students in Nepal.
    Traditional Hindu greetings can now be bastardized into: Huawei Kwishna, Huawei Wam

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  46. Not everyone have the luxury to worry about family ties, laws, morals etc, cheap is the only way to get by. Things would always be better if not for the bogeyman.

    Mean Net Worth Bottom 40.0% 
    1983 $6.9k
    2016 ($8.9k)

    Median Income
    1962 $57k
    2016 $78k

    % of Pop with mean Net Worth Less Than $5k
    1962 30.0%
    2016 31.4%

    DOI: 10.3386/w24085

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  47. Russia will join the EU?

    1) What are you smoking my good man.
    2) Can you get me some.

    Russia will not join the EU, namely because it is currently in the process of a slow slide into Ukraine, and likely Ukraine’s neighbours thereafter.

    The US may have fallen asleep at the wheel of anti Russian expansion during Trump’s administration, but by no means does that mean the European nations are doing the same – especially after that pathetically obvious defector assassination in England made it obvious just how little they regard sovereignty of European nations.

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  48. Awhile yet.

    Most physical jobs handled by robots are quite basic and have to be hand programmed at the moment.

    Part of the problem is just the difference in ease of picking up a new technique, that and the actual physical capabilities of the robots.

    Range of motion and grip feedback come to mind – these are things that modern robotics and soft actuators will fix, but they are much closer to proof of concept lab stuff than any kind of production ready hardware.

    To say nothing of the ML/AI control schemes that will be necessary to get them actually usable for any given job without taking forever to programme each individual motion into it.

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  49. From a “GO” strategic perspective it makes more sense for China/Russia to become allies against the West. Indeed, the respective political regimes are, currently, so similar that IF there were a “misunderstanding” leading to a significant geopolitical disturbance, Brian’s map would, coincidentally, be very similar to the alliances formed.

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  50. At what point in time (near future) would you expect automation to reach a level where ANY human labur is more expensive than machine-based automated labor? In such a scenario, China/Africa/India’s advantage disappears.

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  51. Yes. They won’t admit it, they are Europeans so ultimately they are also “current” West, they will probably want to be closer to West rather than exotic Chinese, to whom they are just another small foreign country/customer. Maybe in future as China grows stronger, Russia will join EU, Germany will sacrifice its leading role.

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  52. Nonsense, how from global perspective market with 1420 million people, growing rich super rapidly can be less important for a market of only 330 million people than market of 330m for 1420m people?

    You ban some silly app which is gathering exactly the same data that FB, Google, YT, Insta and others are, and you potentially loose $40b which Apple is earning, because if WeChat will be blocked, Chinese will stop using iPhones. Also you may “inspire” others like for example EU, India to do the same with all US companies data centers, branches of tech giants. 

    Sell them/ move them to us (EU, India, other) or we will ban you, because we don’t want you to control our citizens data. 

    Super silly decisions and weak strategical thinking.

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  53. Super stupid idea with students and workers.
    You realize that almost 30-50% cutting edge science and tech in US in done by Chinese from Mainland?
    Americans aren’t interested in learning and doing STEM (Science Technology Engineering Mathematics) im sufficient numbers for a country as big as US. Without all those Chinese filling the gap, US science and tech output would be so low that Japan and Germany would catch up with you, even with their smaller populations. It’s a numbers game, so far US was attractive for all those nerds and geniuses but not for long… It’s ending fast and you will become simply weaker in science and tech if you do not change something. This is what you want? US with weaker tech(army) and weak innovation(economy), poorer USA?

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  54. Soviet Russia is not the same Russia as today.

    The old Soviet regime at least made a pretense to communist values of protecting and working for the Soviet peoples, but this one is all Putin and his cadre of oligarchs running things.

    Everything that Russia does now is about their power – how to keep what they have, how to gain more, and how to weaken everybody elses power so that 1 and 2 become easier over time, hence all the hacking and electioneering.

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  55. Indeed, nothing appeals more to a companies board of directors than getting their stuff made more cheaply, which is precisely why so many US companies have outsourced production.

    They will continue to um and ahh about moving production back to the US, but as soon as a more favourable administration towards US-China business comes into power, they will get back to Chinese manufacturing as if nothing happened.

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  56. I think you underestimate that potential Chinese market – clearly many western companies willing to enter into such IP transference agreements for the privilege of access did not agree with you.

    And no the US could not replace China as a sweat shop – not without doing exactly what the GOP habitually run for election on preventing with great vigor.

    ie Mass immigration from countries with poor conditions with people willing to go beneath US minimum wages in order to compete with Chinese labor forces, to say nothing of China’s more lax labor laws and tightly integrated manufacturing pipelines.

    The US’s higher standards for its own population actually mean that only by paying illegal immigrants under the table is it even possible to compete.

    Typically speaking there is a reason that US farmers have to import immigrants to pick their crops – the native US population just think themselves above such hard labor.

    Knowing that, do you still believe that the US could replace China as “the worlds sweatshop”?

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  57. “With nearly one quarter of the global internet population (700 million
    users), the internet behind the GFW can be considered a “parallel
    universe” to the Internet that exists outside”

    As of March 2020 China had already 904 million internet users, much more than 700m factoid from the article

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  58. Internet isolation is an increasingly untenable situation in todays world.

    Once satellite broadband becomes more commonplace all you would need to bridge one net to the other is a transceiver in both countries.

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  59. The flaw with that perspective is that most university research is published openly.

    There is no need to steal what can be obtained easily for an IEEE subscription.

    The very system that allows for open and easy academic collaboration means that it will never be entirely possible to limit unwanted access to university research.

    Private company labs are a different matter entirely – that’s down to them to shore up their own security, and likewise prevent unnecessary sensitive company information from leaving company property.

    Point of fact if they care about security at all it should never leave company property – your claimed attempted theft situation sounds more like opportunists taking advantage of IP or prototype thieves or just security lax lackwits removing sensitive information from secure company areas than anything worthy of note. Somewhat like that idiot that took an iPhone prototype out of work and left it in a public area.

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  60. Yep. Geopolitically China is greater threat to Russia than the West and it has no option but to choose one or the other for this.

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  61. China is a huge market, but less important to the U.S. than the U.S. is to China. If the S and Central America can tamp down government corruption, we could replace China in a few years as the world’s sweatshop.

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  62. Despots and tyrants will LOVE CCP internet. The West should rethink letting any Chinese attend university and working in our companies and university labs. China is here to steal EVERYTHING not bolted down. A while back China had guys at U.S. airports stealing briefcases from businessmen for the purposes of industrial espionage. I had an attempted theft from a small group of them on an airport bus. Luckily I grabbed the guy’s arm before he got away. 3 of them scrammed off the bus from different locations. I’m sure they are still at it. Now, they’re attempting to smash and grab SC Sea.

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  63. They’re definitely rethinking that. Definitely. Or, as the Europeans oh-so-reluctantly admit, where the US goes, the West follows, which geopolitically always eventually includes Russia.  

    ⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
    ⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅

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  64. This is misleading. China, Russia and Iran may end up having their own internet, or maybe end up having a joint one. Who else will join a censored and highly surveilled internet? Maybe few of their collapsed client countries. Yeah, Venezuela. The deserved isolation will not do good to China.

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  65. The problem with opium is that the prospect of going without … is enough to continue against one’s better interests, family ties, laws and everything moral … to get more. Quite the racket. 

    Cheap foreign … everything … is just such an opiate.

    ⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
    ⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅

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  66. Which American companies might be banned from operating in China in retaliation for this silly app company? Might Ford & GM being forced into a fire sale of their joint ventures in China help Tesla? The days of American semiconductor companies have always been numbered in the medium term, but the field is getting wider.

    Apple sales in China was over +$40B a few years ago, they claim they’re responsible for almost ~5M jobs in China. Does that insulate them?

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  67. I, for one, welcome a slight balkanization of the data transfer/ access between countries. Too many rogue groups appear to have have too much power to prey on citizens, corporate data, non-governmental entities, and even government departments. Some of these rogue groups are supported by governments, not discouraged by governments but could be, and many are somewhat immune to any oversight/ enforcement. Keeping the digital infrastructure of each country and its entities safe has to be the most important aspect of any filtering, disconnecting, monitoring, or digital attacks. I think that country culture ‘integrity’ has only a small influence, though some countries have more to lose by not cracking down on citizenry and not openly or discretely supporting cyber-espionage.

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