Data Mining COVID Treatments Vs What Seems to Work

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There was a database minign of what treatments were used in California to treat COVID.

There is a site c19early.com that tracks studies of what seem to be effective early treatments against COVID.

SOURCES- C19early, Medrxiv
Written By Brian Wang, Nextbigfuture.com

74 thoughts on “Data Mining COVID Treatments Vs What Seems to Work”

  1. There was recently published research (with half a throw away comment even) that thinks they might have figured out the disconnect on hydrocholoroquine. The early research showing effectiveness was done on the Vero E6 cell line used for the testing, which apparently limited cell entry by covid to endosome method only, which choloroquines do block. But apparently the primary cell entry method by covid, particularly delta, is most effective in lung/esophagous cells using the trap door fast injector method. So Covid performs okay via endosome entry (but could be blocked), but really shines with the trap door injector. So the early research got misled due to the peculiarities of Vero E6 cells.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-021-00908-w
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02039-y

  2. Edit: they appear to be using betadine as a gargle or nasopharyngeal lavage to inactivate live shedding virus. Sounds unpleasant but obviously I need to read some more on this.

  3. I love when people downvote factual statements! It's an interesting observation in this case of the actions of people who (assumedly) believe in the institutions of science, rather than the philosophy of science

  4. I was joking (sort of).

    If they'd come out heavily in favour of voting, said it was a part of traditional European culture or something, then the opposition (in joke logic) would have decried voting as white supremacist and sexist and their supporters would have stayed away from the polls.

  5. Science is the opposite of dogma. 
    There are Essential Fatty Acids. You can't go without fat for months at a time. I eat a lot of nuts and seeds. I also cook with a bit of avocado oil. I use flax seed oil with my scrambled eggs. And I use a bit of olive oil with pasta. 
    I never fry. Just mix water with a little oil. The eggs I don't add water. They have plenty of moisture in them. 
    Oh, and I add some rice bran oil to white rice, as I don't like brown rice…as a way to put back in some of what was removed. I also put it in wild rice.
    There is an optimum calorie distribution for carbohydrate, protein and fat for long life, and it certainly is not zero fat. I think it is closer to 50% carb, 25% protein, and 25% fat. Of course, those are by calorie not mass.
    And, there is reason to doubt that we really know optimums at this point. As there is so much processed food and food cooks at high temperature in the typical diet that could influence the outcomes of the studies. 
    But the studies were fairly clear that a very high percentage of carbohydrates is bad. And it is probably likely that a high percentage of fat is bad. But we only have the data we have.
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30135-X/fulltext
    Just common sense says extremes are generally ill advised.
    Also, if you eat the same few things all the time, you can have toxins build up.

  8. The dangers of dogma extrapolations…
    Squash if very good for the liver and blood, to make life easy for the liver and your body, avoid diary, gluten, eggs and all fats, down to fatty salad dressings and legume actually. A potato fruits greens and vegetables diet is the best…. starting with 2 cups of celery juice in the morning, no need to count calories… try that for 2 weeks, see where it gets you. It worked miracles for me.

  11. "Show me your Ministry of Truth spokesperson claiming "Vitamin D is the vitamin of insurrectionists!""

    Learn to laugh at a joke.

    Hydroxychloroquine does marginally well. Looking at the chart there are obviously better choices but one very useful fact in its favor is that the error bars around it are quite small. So it does marginally well, reliably.

  12. Yeah I was surprised by that, anti-inflamatory and anti-anticoagulant?

    Again i'm not a doctor just somebody with the rare ability to read a chart. Consult your doctor.

  13. It is sodium chloride…salt. It is going to behave like it. You may or may not be vulnerable to salt causing high blood pressure. But it is particularly common in older people.
    The article you linked to has mice or rats in every test except one. And the one, was celery seed extract, not celery…avoiding the salt issue. Mouse and rat studies are particularly poor when studying antioxidants, and inflammation.
    Rodents make very weak and low levels of SOD which makes them very vulnerable to free radical damage. We have the highest level of SOD, which is a big chunk of why we live so long. The other big chunk being lower body temperature slowing down and preventing a variety of dammaging chemical reactions.
    I have noticed from checking my blood pressure every day that it goes down after I eat Butternut squash. I eat quite a bit of that. I especially like that I don't have to refrigerate it, so I have space in the fridge for other things. It also has the highest levels of Beta Cryptoxanthin which is correlated with lower genetic meythalation.

  15. My doctor had prescribed Vitamin D for me for years before COVID. So, I was already taking it. Added a multivitamin and some other anti-oxidants. I figure I would boost my immunity system the best I could.

  16. Not true for everyone. Too much vitamin C would kill me. Same with Hydroxychloroquine. People are different.

  18. "AND are not outsider buffoons with zero medical knowledge pretending they are brilliant." – are you talking about Biden or Fraudci??

  20. after you have ODed, how long does it take to detoxify your body again and take it back to what it was before the OD??

  22. ok, but you have the chart that Brian posted. I-mectin is not amazing there, but it does its job pretty well. So nobody cares about this. Or perhaps I'm reading the chart wrong.

  23. I think that you have a reasonably good sense of what is wrong to eat but since it is not backed up research you are still to relaxed about it.
    Our all research process is flawed. It is actually dangerous to rely solely on it. We knew till the 80's that caffeine is very bad, but than the industry started financing its own research looking for whatever it chose to look for till they have managed to change the perception on caffeine. Same goes for everything else mentioned here. Our research in general is based on misconception that are replicated down the line. Celery salts cannot be equated with table salt till all aspects of it are thoroughly researched.

  24. There is also a modest disconnect with what I am convinced is bad and what I eat. I can't help eating cheddar, even though I know it is a poor choice. I try to blend it with mozzarella…2-3 parts mozzarella to one part cheddar, but I loose attention sometimes when grating and fall into old habits. And I eat chocolate, though not as regularly. I tend to buy 1-3 pounds and it rarely lasts a week. So I have to put weeks between, sometimes more than a month. And I feel it when I walk by the M&Ms. 
    And because of electrical issues my house is having, and because I threw out my back, I haven't been able to cook more than one thing at a time, which has been hell, and I have made a few poor choices, because I don't want to wait 2 hours making a meal. But this is not typical, and my back was much better today. Even got my 200 sit-ups in. And got my veggies.

  25. I don't buy anything without evidence. You seem to hop on every wonky fad, and traditional nonsense. Just like what killed Steve Jobs…when modern medicine could have saved his life. You seem to be averse to science and reason.
    I don't drink coffee, as caffeine and I don't get along as well as I would like. But evidence says caffeine is fine except during pregnancy. However, they also say you need good sleep at night. I think people tend to lie to themselves about caffeine and get lousy sleep. They say wine is good in small amounts. That is bunk. The "non drinkers" in their samples have many very sick people who are no longer allowed to drink…and obviously they are more likely to die. And studies have pointed this out but the advise does not change. So there, I will grant, there is likely money behind that.
    I have no issue with eggs (they merly assumed they were bad, but tested they are fine).
    They often put canola oil in high gluten pizza dough instead of olive oil. Not a fan of canola. Gluten is bad only if you are the 1/133 with celiac disease. Actually, there are health benefits to gluten. People who eat yogurt live longer. And people who drink milk. Fresh Cheeses (such as: Ricotta, Mozzarella, and Cottage cheese/dry curd cheese) are fine if not heavily blended, most of the others are poor. And butter is atrocious, but so is margerine. Ice cream…I suspect is bad because of the blending process. GMO varies depending on what they did.

  27. Your servile programmed mind can continue spewing all kind of guidelines serving interests unbenkown to you. You probably think that people should drink at least cups of coffee a day and consume eggs, diary and gluten products and MGO food following research financed by bodies of interest. Your manner of practicing medicine has killed more people than all war combines in the modern era.

  28. You say it is low. When did you test it? And how?

    If substances are not scientifically tested, it is next to worthless. Russian roulette.

    Maybe we should become "immortal" by consuming mercury for decades, while we go insane? Eat some rhino horn if we are not horny enough?

    14 servings of the candy has 1 teaspoon of licorice. 1.5 oz is a serving. (2 different sources, but probably still close to accurate).

    50g/d of the candy is the dangerous level. 1.76 oz ~ 50 g.

    So if I have this right, you are close to the equivalent of 3 serving of the candy a day. That is well beyond the safe limit.

    Perhaps it does not affect you as much as others. But, I certainly would not reccomend that level to anyone.

  29. "Blue-skying" is overly generous. Waayy, overly generous. I assume from the definition, that the people blue-skying actually know what they are talking about and been examining something in detail for months. They are the experts in charge of whatever…and are refreshing their perspective, making sure in the big picture what they are doing makes sense…and they haven't left any obvious path unexamined, or ruled something out they shouldn't have. AND are not outsider buffoons with zero medical knowledge pretending they are brilliant.

    Those are the same buffoons who know squat about chess, saying "Ooo, the queen is free. Take the queen!!" when two masters are playing. And when the master does something else, they walk off saying to their girlfriends, "He should have taken the queen. They are idiots".

  30. You probably are part of the oppressive institutionalized medicine and therefore suffering from a lot of ignorance regarding true medicine. The celery juice crystallized salts are perhaps the best pathogenic cleanser and healer available to us. I get tons of potassium eating bananas and plenty of fruit and vegetable, I add almost no salt to my food, and my blood pressure is actually a bit too low. I consume the equivalent of 1/5 tea spoon a day of licorice with no sugar added. I will write more about it in due time.

  31. Many here may not be aware but you have to be careful with what you take away from a meta-analysis. Meta-analysis cannot prove causal relationships, only that one thing is associated with another, in this case relating medication use with mortality. Take this with a grain of salt. For instance, you will notice providone-iodine looks like an amazing treatment for covid from these findings however if you realize that this is a super commonly used topical antiseptic that is probably being used in relationship to IV access or other cleansing things not directly related to actually treating covid you realize that it is a coincidental relationship and something else like maybe good supportive care in a hospital is actually responsible for the decreased mortality.

    VItamin D is in fact looking good plus it has some other data to back it up however the vitamin C and zinc with their small effect size are probably ineffective. This study would steer me towards adopting Casirivimab/Imdevimab however the data is far from definitive.

    Medical statistics can be tricky. Cheers everyone.

  33. Ivermectin results don't show any statistically significant improvements, read my comments below.

  34. Show me your Ministry of Truth spokesperson claiming "Vitamin D is the vitamin of insurrectionists!"
    And hydroxychloroquine did poorly. Did you look? Simple Aspirin was nearly twice as good. And hydroxychloroquine almost certainly had a massive placebo effect, if patents knew they were getting it, and had faith in it.
    Ivermectin should be given as part of standard of care, probably. The testing seems more than adequate. Curcumin and quercetin might be better, but there is still limited data. Though, they are almost certainly harmless at reasonable amounts.
    Trump would never suggest something starting with "quer-" 🙂

  35. And how much licorice is in your supplement vs what was in the man's candy? I am not saying you are taking enough to make you drop over dead. I am just saying it could be messing with your potassium level.
    It lowers potassium relative to sodium increasing blood pressure, and then you were taking celery juice which is high in sodium.
    Are you embracing high blood pressure? High blood pressure destroys the kidneys.
    I suggest you get a blood pressure cuff. I bought one about a year ago because I wanted to try to keep my blood pressure healthy and I thought the feedback would be useful. I test either once or twice a day. And it seems to be fine…but a lot of stress or a really lousy night's sleep can really affect it. I bought a wrist one as they are cheaper. And it works fine. You just have to have it at heart level, and the machine part must be on the inside of the wrist. I also bought an oximeter in case I got sick. The plan was to monitor my blood oxygenation and if it got low go to the hospital. But that was for the old status…when the hospitals were bursting.
    After vaccination I am not as concerned. If I get Covid now, it should be a cold or less.
    My blood pressure thingy looks like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/192467929310?hash=item2ccffb88de:g:AvEAAOSwMkJaaUVR
    And the blood oxygen doohickey looks like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174781942974?hash=item28b1d0ccbe:g:wdkAAOSw2hxgramf
    There are dozens of different models. Can't say if one is better than another.

  36. It's not just one paper, every large study has shown no results and fell back on this paper which claimed a 90% success rate, which hasn't been duplicated by anyone else.

    Effect of Ivermectin on Time to Resolution of Symptoms Among Adults With Mild COVID-19
    A Randomized Clinical Trial

    Conclusion and Relevance Among adults with mild COVID-19, a 5-day course of ivermectin, compared with placebo, did not significantly improve the time to resolution of symptoms.

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777389

  37. That was one paper. It does not effect the rest of the papers and national/international studies and the META studies that were conducted. There were several doctors that treated over 40 patients with Ivermectin and they all went home within three days. One government medical advisor in India stated that Ivermectin was useless and she was ignored except one "state" that followed he advise. That state had three times as many deaths. She may be tried and executed under Indian law.

  38. From your article
    “All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage"
    In the most recent case, the Massachusetts man had been eating a bag and a half of black licorice every day for three weeks.
    I personally found significant benefits in using licorice as an anti viral gut and lung healer and immunity enhancer.
    Here is a good review of licorice:

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323761#dosage

  40. My uncle was just taking a baby aspirin every day and got an ulcer and almost died. Just the wrong genes. I think it is a known issue and you can have a genetic test. My mom also finds aspirin unpleasent, so she may have the same gene as her brother. Doesn't bother be a bit.
    Curcumin is widely available…though slightly pricey. I take that and quercetin…and aspirin, D, and C. Zinc can also be a problem. The usual kind gives me an upset stomach, so I take zinc picolinate. But I don't take it everyday because 50 mg is quite a bit and too much can be bad.
    Though, I don't take quercetin daily. I take it when I am doing a senescent cell purge.
    I also wonder if fisetin might be better against Covid-19. It is a powerful flavonol like quercetin. I think they should test that one as well.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20586862/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavonols
    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/zinc-overdose-symptoms#TOC_TITLE_HDR_10

  42. The research paper all other Ivermectin papers were based on got pulled for fraud and plagiarism. Ivermectin never worked.

    A masters student who had been assigned to read the paper as part of his degree noticed that the entire introduction appeared to be copied from earlier scientific papers, and further analysis revealed that the study's datasheet posted online by the authors contained obvious irregularities.
    https://www.sciencealert.com/ivermectin-study-controversy-is-a-huge-wake-up-call-for-fraud-in-covid-19-science

  43. There is a common cause, fatty diet leading to both insulin resistance and lowered immunity due to a fatty liver.

  45. Datamining COVID treatment seems like a really good idea.

    Also, since we are not allowing comments on the rebalancing investments post, I'll have to put it over here.

    Frequent rebalancing is a usually a crock. It involves the nice man at Edmond Smith's Financial Services Company (not his real name) taking money out of the things in your portfolio that are doing better than average and putting it in the things that can't keep up. And charging transaction fees for doing this, in addition to the percentage he takes off the top every year, and getting some additional, um, consideration, from the place he invests it in.
     
    If diversity and balancing is important just buy at least three or more good mutual funds. Boom, you are diversified and possibly balanced, depending on the focus of your funds.
     
    The real problem being that people that are good at figuring out where to invest aren't necessarily the best to manage it. My recommendation is to figure out how you want your investments focused, then go with established and proven fund managers for those kinds of assets, these are ones with a history of how they do in bad times, as well as good. And avoid the full service places with the nice man in your own neighborhood who will tell you what he wants you to hear.
     
    Put it in Vanguard or some place where you can call the shots and only rebalance when you want to. Considering how it can unexpectedly impact your taxes, you really don't want someone else doing it to you, do you?

  46. I'm surprised that Enovid isn't listed. It is an nasal spray that kills nearly all viruses and is 99.9 percent effective. Takes about 2 hours to work:

    sanotize.com/enovid

  47. Dude. The Ministry of Truth is sacred. Never go against the ministry. For if you do, you're a bigot or something.

  48. Here in the People's Republic of Minnesota, the governor banned, by proclamation, using hydroxychloroquine for treating COVID, even though it is an accepted medical practice to use drugs 'off label' to treat other diseases.

    His medical background includes being a middle school teacher….

  49. The presence of comorbidities is the key. COVID is most lethal when the person already has chronic illnesses. Diabetes seems to be the one that is mostly likely to trigger a severe case; but by no means the only one.

  51. Incidentally, there actually IS some reason to believe that dilute bleach based nasal irrigation could be effective against respiratory viruses. Emphasis on "dilute". The active ingredient in bleach is produced by the nasal lining as an anti-viral response, artificially augmenting it actually is something researcher look into.

    It's a sad thing that a President actually following the medical literature is considered bad, and therapies with substantial evidence get rejected because the 'wrong' President mentioned them.

    Note the mention of bleach:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7193539/

  52. I haven't anything to say in favor of Trump's habit of engaging in blue-skying in public. It's not something Presidents should do in public, though they absolutely should in private.

    But there's nothing positive to say about California's political control over medical decisions forcing treatment options AWAY from what the data says works, in the direction of treatments the data says don't work.

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=blue%20skying

  53. Anything either side does is highly discouraged by the other side in every corner of the country. I have no use for either side of the extreme parts of these political parties, but Being hyper political is nothing new and it certainly isn't just in CA. TX is their polar opposite and that's not changing anytime soon.

    Besides that, Trump was the guy that wanted to know if disinfectants could somehow be used inside the human body. When you're asking questions that ridiculous, that'll pretty much render any of your other "suggestions" worthless.

    Only in America could a virus and the cure for the virus be politicized.

  54. Yeah, that's why I said 'as a practical matter'; You can OD on just about anything, even water, but ODing on mineral supplements or fat soluble vitamins is moderately easy to do. You just have to seriously exceed the recommended dose for an extended period, because they can accumulate in your system.

    ODing on water soluble vitamins requires taking an acutely toxic dose, because you'll piss the excess out almost immediately.

  55. That's what you call a counter-factual.

    It's an old joke, the US has a Stupid party, the Republicans, and an Evil party, the Democrats. Only, the Stupid party is also evil, and the Evil party is also stupid.

  56. I've taken two shots of Pfizer vaccine. I am also already taking vitamin C, D and zinc. My recommendation is get vaccinated and take those other supplements.

  60. You can OD on losing weight and getting exercise too. But it's fairly safe to assume that practically nobody will, at least not just because someone recommended it.

  61. what ever some bloke down at the pub was taking while he was sick is a viable treatment

    So beer then?

  67. I'd advise that Vitamin C is the only one of those you can't, as a practical matter, OD on. Though it takes some work to OD on the other three.

  68. I'll go back to a "true" story of mine from the beginning of the pandemic. An acquaintance of my second cousin's wife contracted Covid. He worked in a veterinary hospital and received care at his hospital. They pumped him full of medical marijuana, medical fentanyl, etc even though they weren't "approved". He made a full recovery.

    In an alternate time line, they pumped him full of chicken soup and he still made a full recovery.

    Who needs pretentious scientists, what ever some bloke down at the pub was taking while he was sick is a viable treatment since he survived.

  69. Curcumin, Vitamin C, and Zinc are notable here, as everyone needs them. Curcumin is a natural anti viral and healer for many conditions. Vitamin C and Zinc we universally have a deficiency of and need all to take to improve our immune system as well as for other reasons. We also need more sunlight, and that is much more effective than taking Vitamin D. There are other natural ingredients that we need to consume more and are good to increase our immunity and eradicate viruses in our system, golden seal, garlic, celery juice, licorice, lemon juice and thyme are just a few. Pretty sure that we could create a better cocktail to fight Covid 19 from natural ingredients than from synthetic medicine.

  71. I'm taking four on the list just as part of my routine supplementation. No wonder I experienced it as a 2 day head cold.

    The thing about California is that basically everything is totally politicized, so they weren't making the treatment decisions based on medical studies, they were making them based on political talking points: Anything Republicans spoke highly of was discouraged, and if Trump mentioned it, it would be flat out prohibited.

    In fact, doctors in California were being prosecuted for prescribing hydroxychloroquine for Covid, it's hardly surprising it didn't get prescribed much.

  72. Most everyone can take Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Zinc, and Aspirin on a daily basis (i'm not a doctor, consult your doctor).

    Also drop some weight and get some exercise.

  73. I'll go back to a true story of mine from the beginning of the pandemic. An acquaintance of my wife contracted Covid. He worked in a hospital and received care at his hospital. They pumped him full of hydroxychloroquine, zpac, etc even though they weren't "approved".

    He made a full recovery. There's a huge disconnect between "best practices", "approved treatments" and actual treatment.

  74. But the Ministry of Truth said that hydroxychloroquine doesn't work, that Ivermectin doesn't work and Vitamin D is the vitamin of insurrectionists!

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