CATL Launches Ultrafast Charging Car Battery – 240 Miles of Range in 10 Minutes

22 thoughts on “CATL Launches Ultrafast Charging Car Battery – 240 Miles of Range in 10 Minutes”

1. I recently heard the claim that mining enough lithium etc. for making enough all electric cars to replace all the petroleum powered cars would be *difficult*.
   So to maximize the replacement of petroleum we should instead put all these batteries in plug-in-hybrid cars. So all short trips (up to maybe 100 km) are on the battery and only on long trips does a petroleum powered generator start up when the battery gets low.
   This would have the other advantage that all this fuss about fast charging becomes redundant.
   Is this difficulty of getting enough battery materials a valid concern?

   • There is plenty of lithium. There are not enough lithium mines. It takes a long time to bring a new mine online, and then their is refining to do. On the other hand, eventually battery reclamation will become a major source of lithium, and cobalt.

     • Which does make it sound like over the next decade or two, plug in hybrids would be the best option. Then when there are enough lithium mines go for all-electric.

       • I work in the vehicle finance industry. What we found is that a majority of plug-in hybrid users weren’t all that motivated to charge the battery and just relied on gas power for 2 reasons – first, vehicle fleets paid for by their company paid the fuel bill so there was no personal incentive for drivers to charge (other than environmental) so it never really happened, second, getting a plug-in hybrid wasn’t a big enough motivator for fleet owners or users to install a proper type 2 charging setup at home where charging is easiest. So in the end many of these cars just because very heavy hybrids. It sucks, but drivers weren’t as motivated as we had assumed they would be. When companies rotate to full EV the drivers had no choice but to plug in and the behaviour rapidly changed and investment in charging infrastructure at home and office was more easily justified! So plug-ins, at least in my experience work on the willing but the not the majority passive driver.

         • [ me would give an EV a plug-in fuel engine ( (top weight(?) for a) 15kW, 3 gallons fuel, from car dealership, on lease) for planed long range travel and emergency situations (e.g. winter storm down times, maybe smaller 3-5kW, ~30pounds) and

           with reading about real world experience difficulty (concerns about independence/autonomy/sovereignty, availability for resources on remote locations or unexpected high demand) and with rural charging on unexpected situations carToCar charging (or company supplied fast reaction emergency service with situational requests, being difficult with mass demand on e.g. difficult weather) could be (recommendable?) options

           cost?]

2. I charge my car to that range in about 2 minutes. Of course, I charge it with gasoline, I gather that’s an unfair advantage.

   • how much did you pay for this gasoline and how long do you have to work to get that money?

     • At 50 combined MPG for a 2023 Prius, and California’s $4.50/gallon fuel, that’s about 9 ¢/mile. For my Tesla Model 3, getting about 4.5 miles per kWh, and California’s domestic electricity running 22 ¢/kWh, that comes in at 4.9 ¢/mile. Half the price per mile, all electric.

       Yet and still, no matter how I play it, I find myself always planning to hook into the ubiquitous Tesla-friendly super-charging network when out and about. Then getting irked that quite a few of the stations are log-jammed with cars. Charging anxiety.

       Never had that with the gasoline car. Confidence in gasoline station availability so high that I would let it run down to near empty between refills. I would NEVER do that with the Tesla. Ever. Way too precarious. And so, I also find myself simply not opting (actually avoiding!) to take trips to out-of-the-way places out of interest and adventure. Charging anxiety.

       What’s the cost of that? I can tell you, it definitely is real. Annoyingly so. There are upsides, I guess though. Fun car experience. Excellent built-in electronics (not that that requires a e-car, right?) Quite easy (now) to find super charging stations while on the road. All in all — at least in my mind — its about even. Even but with restrictions.

       Would I do it again? Absolutely. Would I get rid of my Chevy truck entirely? Never. Just saying… purpose built gasoline vehicles able to ‘charge up’ at 100 miles/minute (6 gal/min and 18 mpg) RULE for work-a-day and take-long-trips-to-mountains use.

       ⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
       ⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅

3. Superchargers top out at 250kW.

   This would require closer to 750kW.

   • Yah. 240 miles approximately equals 240 megajoules of energy. Roughly. +-20% or so. Still … 240 MJ / (10 min * 60 sec/min) = 0.4 MJ/sec or 400 kW. So again yes closer to 750 kW.

     The most worrisome aspect of near-megawatt charging is the combo of current (amperage) versus cable mass, and if addressed through higher voltage, then ‘higher voltage’ and its tendency to weasel its way through all kinds of flexible insulation. Flexible, in inclement weather, subzero winters, sweltering summers, roadway salts, oils, solvents, mechanical compression, general public abuse. 400 kw = 400,000 W. 1000 amps at 400 volts, which is one HECK of a charging cable if ambient-cooled. Active cooling (non-ionic fluid coolant) solves a lot, but really seriously complicates the charger. And 1000 amps is hell on the in-car regulation too.

     I AM NOT SAYING it is impossible, just a serious challenge. Not glibly answered.

     • This is the first time I’ve heard of this issue. I can easily imagine jackasses carving notches in the cables for the lols—probably just before I get to it.
       ⚡️

       I think that’s one of the biggest fears about artificial intelligence; when computers are able to watch us all the time and start snitching on everyone’s psychotic, anti-social behaviour, human’s will have to start behaving like adults almost all the time. Going to be a difficult adjustment for some people.

     • The industry is already transitioning to 800 volt batteries with 1000 volt charging, so 750 kW only means 750 amps. Very manageable.

       From a power grid perspective, it means big loads. Superchargers today are about 120 kW per port, because of charging curves. A 1,500 kW delivery point that uses the largest standard equipment can serve 10-15 charging ports.

       Faster charging sessions that maintain high power for the whole session might mean the same delivery point can only serve 2-3 charging ports.

       • Thanks for the reply

         “The Industry” transitioning to 800 to 1000 volts … for domestic cars, is news to me. References, please.

         In any case “the problem” of higher voltages isn’t just limited to the inevitable insulation breakdown of the power delivery cables. It also extends into the vehicle itself. Road vibrations deliver a LOT of flexure to all of the cables and busses unless really securely tied down. Again, not insurmountable. Just an engineering issue.

         On my ‘top of my list’ issues though is the breakdown characteristics of the much higher voltage ‘battery stacks’ to efficiently utilize the purported higher charging voltages. Let me explain simply: if I have a 100 volt battery, and try to charge it with a 100 volt charger, it won’t charge hardly at all. Maybe when near-empty it has a relaxation voltage below 100 V, so the current will naturally flow to it. But at 100 V, its done. This is NOT A BUG, but a feature!

         However, if my charger is 400 volts, then there is a huge mismatch between the battery and the charger. This — if unregulated — would result in a torrent, an avalance of current from charger to battery, burning out the cells, the charger, the cables, the fuses or all of them together.

         So… regulators. If the preponderance of e-cars on the road today and because of both momentum and intellectual inertia, most of them in the nearer future are 300 to 400 V batteries, then any huge difference in charger and battery needs not only to be ‘regulated’, but done so quite efficiently, so as to not burn off all those kilowatt-hours as waste heat (and lost profits). Again, not insurmountable, but a significant engineering issue. Presently, the use of remarkably high efficiency so-called-digital voltage-and-current regulators take higher voltages (but NEAR those of the target battery) and down-convert it by high frequency chopping and downwind filtering through very-very-low loss filters.

         It works, its in every computer, your little cube smart-phone charger, all sorts of things. Demonstrating that it is pretty cheap, and pretty commonplace. Still … more engineering issues at the 1000 volt level for 99% of the cars working at 300–400 volts.

         Lastly, please remember that cable-heating (ohmic losses) go up as a function of the SQUARE of current, for a given wire. (P = I²R, power = current² times resistance.)

         Thus, if today’s 120 kW (rather high end) public access utility charger runs at 300–400 volts, it is also delivering about 350 amps or so. If with no active fluid cooling, a cable of this system is allowed to indefinitely charge with losses of 50 watts per meter (the cable getting modestly warm), then at 750 amps, it would get (⁷⁵⁰⁄₃₅₀)² = 4.6x hotter. Might be too much for our present cable. Larger cable, more copper per wire, more overall insulation needed. Heavier.

         Similarly, if one is to contemplate a 750 kW to 1500 kW charger, with 750 to 1500 amps flowing, the wires again would need to be proportionately larger, heaver, better insulated. My overall question is, at what point do they become too heavy, stiff, unwieldly for ordinary mom-n-pop consumers to deal with them?

         I guess the simple answer is, “if they are no heavier, stiff or unwieldly as present day gasoline hoses…”

         Right?

         Having worked with electricity (seriously so) all my life, I will leave this with this: already 350 volt batteries are ‘scary’ to this old (and still alive) electrician. 800 V batteries scare the b’Jesus out of me. Call me a weenie if you like, but getting zapped ‘merely’ with 240 VAC is enough to shake your confidence in the whole mess. 800 V? You die. Survival isn’t really an option. Your heart stops. So do you.

         Good luck with getting that through America’s and Europe’s (and Japan’s) legendarily cautious certification and authority sieve.

         ⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
         ⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅

         • EVs with 800V charging
           2022 Audi E-Tron GT.
           2022 Porsche Taycan GTS Sport Turismo.
           2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5.
           2022 Kia EV6.

           • He was asking for 1000V references, not 800V.

         • Replying to myself …

           So, it turns out that there ARE 800 V charging standards in place, and with consequences. So far, 500 amps maximum seems to be peak. And 800 volts. DC. Which for some reason they don’t multiply and get 400 kW, but 350 kW. At least according to WikiPedia’s many articles and sub-articles.

           Be that as it may, I remain alert to the problems of high voltage. And now, having read (maybe every) article on this at Wiki, I’m left with the feeling that there’s a ‘battle afoot’ between NACS and the CCS type–1 and type–2 charging at least here in the US. Ford and GM have published that they’re “going with NACS” completely by 2025. This — given it is the standard already for TESLA, would feel like a great big coffin nail for the CCS and other competing standards.

           At least in North America.

           The way the voltage differential is ‘handled’ is to “leave it up to the car”. It appears that the charging stations’ electronics is busy querying the vehicle for its preferred voltage, current. They have a conversation and agree upon terms BEFORE energizing the big fat heavy DC or AC charging wires/pins. Then in real-time, the charger and the car have a peppy conversation as to the charge state, and further demand.

           This allows the car to monitor its battery pack and own on-board charging electronics, and to signal either to stop charging or to slow down the rate with over-heating and that kind of thing. Smart.

           I also did a bunch of Google searches, and couldn’t find very many CCS chargers in my area (Central Bay Area, Fremont side). And of the few I found, half were VERY limited in output. Like 50 kW.

           So they have the right ‘connectors’ to charge those Audis and Porsches, but nowhere near the power to really charge ’em up fast. Which kind of misses the point, you know?

           Léts hope the long term issues with kilovolt charging don’t turn out to be endlessly “out-of-service” because of lethal leakages.

           ⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
           ⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅

     • This means that we are transitioning to another faze in elctric energy ussage. Phase 1, let’s say, lighting, phase 2 – home appliances, phase 3 – charging cars and home heating. Bigger and bigger currents. One can imagine subsubsequent phases: plasma waste disposal, creation of matter from pure energy, destruction of matter etc.

     • goat greatest of all time

   • current 800v chargers top out at 350 kw

   • v3 Superchargers are ~12 amperes/mm2 and 250kW (liquid cooled, network of superchargers had ~99.96% uptime for 50% of available stations, on 2021 Tesla statistics, average power with active charging and 24/7(?), (told for ~2016) being in planed service ~12yrs before renewal)

     v4 Superchargers are limited to 400V 250kW, partly 450V 320-350kW (prepared/capable up to 615kW and a maybe rated voltage then up to 1000V)

     Megachargers for Semis are 1000V 1000A and 35 amperes/mm2 (liquid cooled)

4. The Sony Lithium Cobalt battery (early 1990’s) was a true game changer. However, IMO, the following 33 years, until now, of battery development has progressed at a frustratingly snails pace.

5. I sure hope this pans out. It would be a great stride for humankind and the advancement of technology. Batteries are used in so many devices today. Not just cars.

Comments are closed.