Gasoline Cars Versus Electric Cars

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There are some people observing that gasoline has 12700 watt hours per kilogram vs EV batteries with 160 to 450 watt hours per kilogram. Gasoline needs to have an engine and gas tank and other parts to make the vehicle do anything. The battery pack of an electric vehicle is most of the mass of an electric car while the gasoline engine weighs far more than the electric motors.

The Tesla Model Y weighs between 3,920 and 4,416 pounds. The 2023 Toyota RAV4 CRUISER (AWD) HYBRID weighs 3,869.1 lbs. The Tesla Model Y comes in a few variations, including a Long Range and Performance dual-motor trim. Both trims weigh 4,416 lbs. The Model Y with the optional third-row seating weighs the most.

The 2023 Toyota RAV4 has a 14.5 gallon gas tank and can travel up to 595 miles on a single tank of gas under ideal conditions. The hybrid model has an EPA-estimated range of 580 miles. The regular RAV4 has an EPA-estimated range of 507 miles. The Tesla Model Y long range has 330 miles of range.

Currently in California, gas is $5.50 per gallon. 480 gallons per year is $2640 per year. The US average is 489 gallons/year per registered vehicle to go about 14,200 miles. Many Tesla’s and electric cars can be charged at home for about twelve cents per kWh. Tesla get about 4 miles per kWh. The 14200 miles would need about 3550 kWh. Supercharging or using other chargers can cost more at $0.25 to $0.50 per kWh. This is only needed about 10-20% of the time for most drivers. This means about $400-600 per year for the electricity. This would be free if the person has installed solar. The hardware costs for the solar power, battery and charger would be amortized over the years of usage. The electric cars need less maintenance. There is no need for oil changes and a lot of the other service.

The fuel and maintenance is about $2500-3000 per year less for the Tesla Model Y.

The insurance costs can be higher for the electric because of higher repair costs. This could be $1000 per year more for the Tesla.

The Tesla Model Y is a leader among electric SUVs, electric cars and is now the top selling car of any kind (gas or electric). It features an electric motor that produces up to 456 horsepower, while the Toyota RAV4 Prime offers 302 horsepower through its hybrid system. The power disparity between them shows clearly in the acceleration times. The Model Y can reach 60 mph from zero in just 3.5 seconds compared to the RAV4 Prime’s time of around six seconds. The Model Y’s top speed is also higher, clocking in at 155 mph compared to the RAV4 Prime’s 120 mph in electric-only mode. The instant torque and more responsive acceleration of the Model Y’s electric powertrain provide the performance that some drivers find exhilarating.

The price for a gas compact SUV to go from zero to 60 in 3.5 seconds is usually $100,000 or more. It has been common for gas car buyers to pay substantial premiums for sportier cars with very good acceleration and higher top speeds.

The Tesla Model Y has state-of-the-art technology features that better than the Toyota RAV4 Prime. The Tesla Autopilot is one of them. It uses cameras and radar, and advanced sensors, to control the steering, braking, and throttling of the vehicle on the road. It sports a larger and more responsive infotainment touchscreen and a mobile app integration that provides remote vehicle controls like unlocking, starting, and climate control. It has over-the-air software updates, voice-activated controls, and a more advanced sound system. The connectivity features available on the Model Y help access internet streaming, calendar integration, and traffic updates. In comparison, the RAV4 Prime doesn’t include most of these. The few available are optional extras.

The RAV4 Prime has 33.5 cubic feet of cargo capacity. The Model Y has 30.2 cubic feet of storage when the rear seats are up. With the rear seats folded down, the Model Y offers 72.1 cubic feet versus the 69.8 cubic feet of the RAV4 Prime. The Model Y has a front trunk that provides an additional 4.1 cubic feet of storage. This feature makes the Model Y more practical for those who require extra space for luggage or equipment. Overall, the Tesla Model Y provides 76.2 cubic feet of space to the RAV4 Prime’s 69.8, when the rear seats are folded down, and the front trunk is added.

22 thoughts on “Gasoline Cars Versus Electric Cars”

  1. ICE, or more specifically serial hybrid range extender gensets, really should have had a standardized set of interfaces for vehicle mounting by now. There used to be talk of single rotor wankel engines in a pizzabox format as range extenders, and why there isn’t a standardized interface for small gensets on a rear platform mounted directly on a trailer hitch like those tailgate coolers is beyond me. At the least have the “hooks” so that you can interface with large electrical systems on a trailer or offboard via a rear interface that can be sealed and operated while in motion.

    At some point, vehicles intended for emergency situations such as government vehicles may end up being the remaining commercial major users of ICE/hybrid vehicles (since they often operate their own private gas stations), along with the military.

  2. There’s a guy in the video “Trapped in paradise_ how we got the homeless situation (part 1)”. He says a one bedroom in I think San Francisco or that area is $4,000-$5,000 a month. He makes good money as a programmer but he says he doesn’t want to spend 10% of his income on housing, so he rents a pod. A bunk bed. Three people to a room with a small cabinet space and room in a fridge marked off. He pays $1,200 for the pod. So with a self-driving hybrid van, he could save a fortune.

    Here’s my disruptive idea. I personally like hybrids with a large battery bank, so mostly electric. Lots of people are moving into vans in the city centers because they are making living there so expensive. They are passing laws to keep out RV’s by limiting the length, for parking overnight, to 22? long or so. The length of normal work and delivery vans. They can’t ban those because it would disrupt business too much.

    Here’s how to crush the monopolist liberals by refusing to fund them. Some numbers.

    https://www.carshtuff.com/post/how-much-electricity-does-a-tesla-use

    Tesla Model 3 uses about .22 kWh per mile or 220 watt-hours per mile

    A Tesla uses around 34 kWh of electricity to travel 100 miles. If electricity costs roughly $0.12 per kWh, that means that it costs $4.08 to drive 100 miles

    https://teslatale.com/watts-does-tesla-use/

    The Model 3 uses between 85 and 90 watts of electricity while on the road.
    The Model S uses between 160 and 300 watts while on the road.
    Tesla Model Y is estimated to be between 270 and 320 watts.
    The Model X uses between 375 and 420 watts while on the road.

    So how much power can we get from the roof of a full sized van with solar. 8’x20′ or roughly 2.66 x 6.66 meters or 17.77 square meters

    You can get 20% power from solar panels and at 1,000 Watts per meter solar power from the Sun, that is 17,777.77 watts x .2 = 3,555 watts

    The figures for power of Teslas above are at 50 to 70 MPH. It would be way less if you are going 25-30 no more than 45 mph but let’s use the larger figure, and you are still only using 10% of the power needed. So what will we have, assuming 12 hours day and 12 hours night.

    3,555 watts x 12 hours = 42,666Wh power stored from Sun. Let’s say you average only 30mph. I’ll use a middle figure of 300W, you are only using 3,600W over 12 hours.

    Even better. If you charge a RV van during the day, a self driving van can drive all night while you sleep. In fact if you only got 8 hours of sunlight, total power storage of 28,440 Wh then you could drive at lower speeds 24 hours a day and still have 21,240 Wh left over. All the leftist cities are trying to destroy people and rape them with high living cost. If you lived in a solar van you could, if the Sun worked out, live for almost free.

    Even if you had to burn a little fuel in a diesel generator to charge the van it would be not be so much. Diesel has 138,700 BTU per gallon and 3412 BTU’s = 1,000W, so at 35% efficiency you could make 138,700 BTU per gallon x 1,000W/3412 BTU(.35 efficiency) = 14,227 Watts per gallon. So even with 100% diesel, you could drive 24 hours a day for 1.976 days on one gallon of diesel fuel.

    While it might drive Elon nuts I personally believe a low power diesel of advanced desgn would be great to have in a Tesla. Maybe a linear piston generator diesel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-piston_linear_generator

    It could be very small and put out a steady low power while batteries handle peak power. A small 5-10 gallon tank would take you a long way.

    • https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-electric-vehicles-involved-in-fewest-car-fires/

      Then don’t park an ICE or hybrid in your garage.

      “Analysts from AutoInsuranceEZ examined data from the National Transportation Safety Board to track the number of car fires and compared it to sales data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

      The result? Hybrid-powered cars were involved in about 3,475 fires per every 100,000 sold. Gasoline-powered cars, about 1,530. Electric vehicles (EVs) saw just 25 fires per 100,000 sold.”

      • Yeah, but I think you can be pretty confident than essentially zero of the ICE cars caught fire spontaneously. They’re pretty safe just sitting there.

    • Agreed, and how about driving through Death Valley without AC or being stuck in a Chicago grid lock during a freezing ice storm without heat because the batteries can’t handle it? Also, in all blue states the refuse to build power plants, so where’s the juice to charge it?

      Its all Green Nazi BS! Electric cars will not work with our current infrastructure! Someone tell the Left about Compact Nuclear Reactors, PLEASE!

      • The were a lot of cars recently stranded on a freeway because of blizzard. Many were gas car but some were EVs. A lot of gassers did run out of gas. As for the EVs most were OK. Once the road reopened many of the EV shad enough range to make it to there nearest charging station. After a 30 minutes recharge most had enough power to get home.

        Also there was one hurricane about 8 years ago that was forest to make landfall near key west Florida and was format to stay over florida until it reached the northern boarder. So a large portion of florida was under evacuation order. The freeway was one long traffic jamb. Cars got of the road to refuel only to find all the gas stations were out of fuel. End result is that a lot of people had to rid out the storm in shelters. Tesla EVs had no problem evacuating because the power stayed on until the storm made land fall. Tesla They only needed a 30 minute recharge to get to the next tesla carling station They only need about 3 stops to make it out of the storms projected path.

        The reason EV fared better is because they are very efficient. If an EV owner gets suck with a full battery charge they have enough power to heat or cool the car for about 48 hours. or more. Cars on the other have are very inefficient idling to power heat or AC..

  4. Where do chinese, who I guess mostly live in apartments, charge their cars?

    Because that will be a big problem in many countries, including most European cities.

    And also “personal” solar. One thing is to have 100 sq meters solar on top of your roof to your family.

    Another is to have 200 sq meters solar on top of a 10 floors highrise, with 4 apartments per floor (thus about 40 apartments), plus a subterranean parking lot with 40 to 80 car spots.

    • I don’t know about the Chinese, but I live in an apartment in Calgary Alberta Canada. The parking spaces all have 120 v electric outlets because ICE cars mostly have block heaters so they will start in really cold weather. My understanding is that will charge hybrid car batteries overnight, but not completely charge a fully electric car.
      One reason I would consider a hybrid over an all electric.

      • I charge my Tesla on a 120v outlet in ottawa. It charges 8km of range per 1 hour of charging. So about 100km of range overnight. (12 hrs). Unless you drive more than 100km per day it will be fine. This applies to spring summer and fall.

        Winter is a different story. Battery needs to be warm to charge (above freezing) so the 120 v will spent a lot of time just warming the battery and less charging will get done. On the coldest nights (say -25c) you may not be able to get much charge at all. Also range will be reduced by 30% in winter. However I did get through an ottawa winter on my 120v. Just need to keep it always plugged when not in use. Always an option to top up at a fast charger on the coldest days. But I never had to do that in my first winter.

      • Depending on the power available at the outlet Most EVs will be mostly recharged overnight on a standard 120VV outlet.

  5. “This means about $400-600 per year for the electricity. This would be free if the person has installed solar. The hardware costs for the solar power, battery and charger would be amortized over the years of usage. ”

    It’s generally a bad sign if you contradict yourself and don’t even notice. Of course, electricity is no more free to the homeowner with a solar power system, than gasoline is free to the proprietor of a gas station. What’s the amortized cost of that electricity? It has to be factored in.

    On range, it’s worth remembering that EV range declines dramatically if you have to use the heating or cooling. ICE range is totally unaffected by use of heating, and only modestly impacted by use of the air conditioner. (In principle, ICE vehicles could be equipped with ammonia style air conditioning units, and there would be no range impact at all from air conditioning because it, too, would use the waste heat.

  6. The “12700 watt hours per kilogram” of gas should be corrected to a net 4400 watt hours per kilogram because of the efficiency of the thermodynamic engine, at best. Probably more reallistic in the order of 3000 because of the variation of regime in real world.
    From another point of view, knowing that a typical gas car use leads to approx. 7 kg of gas per 100 km that is 12700 x 7 =88900 w-h/kg. And knowing that a typical electric car needs more or less 20000 w-h/kg each 100 km, one can calculate that real efficiency of the gas car is about 23% -compared to the electric car-, hence the “real value” of gas is 2921 w-h/kg.

  7. would take somewhere between 15 – 30 years for the accumulated fuel and maintenance savings of the Tesla to offset the higher initial purchase price, assuming no other major repairs or battery replacements are needed on the Tesla during that time.

    • Depends of course on your particular circumstances. I’m saving about $200 per month on fuel vs electricity. So 24,000 over 10 years which more than pays for the premium price on my model 3 Tesla. And I get a much better car. But I’m in Canada with expensive gasoline and cheap electricity.

  8. Retail electricity in California is $0.52/kWh or 4x your estimate. Fuel for the EV is $2,000. Add $2,000/year for battery replacement and hazardous waste disposal cost. Add $5,000/year for home fire insurance. Add $2,000/year to rent a car for vacations.

    • From what I’ve read battery replacement costs about $13,000 but they last 10-20 years. So a lot less than $2000 a year.

    • The scost of power depends on the utility and location. I did a search and $052 applies to orange county california peak rate when power demand is it’s highest. I live in the sanfansisco. east month I payed $0.14 per kWh. The average cost in california is $0.19. and there are 4 other states with power cost that high. However in hawaii the power cost $0.32 per kWh. And many utilities offer a discount to EV owners.

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