One of the drivers indicates that they are needing less than 1.7 kWH per mile.
The Tesla Semi can be charged from 5% to 90% in 20 to 30 minutes.
The actual truck drivers are reporting it has a great turn radius and has very comfortable drive.
Three of the 21 trucks are on long haul routes and they are pulling full loads.
They added a second sub station and access an added 3 MW of electricity. They added more electrical and charging infrastructure.
The Tandem axel helps give the truck flexibility for handling the loads efficiently.
California’s Advanced Clean Trucks (ACT) rule requires truck manufacturers to sell an increasing percentage of zero-emissions vehicles in the state, starting in 2024. By 2035, at least 55% of Class 2b-3 truck sales, 75% of Class 4-8 truck sales, and 40% of Class 7-8 tractor sales must be zero-emissions. And California is not the only state setting goals for the sale of zero-emissions vehicles; other states and provinces have followed suit.
Run On Less – Electric DEPOT – Pepsi Beverages from NACFE on Vimeo.
About Run on Less — Electric DEPOT
The next Run on Less event will focus on likely the biggest challenge to scaling the deployment of electric trucks. Lots of fleets have deployed one or two electric trucks, but few have made the move to having 15 or more trucks. This event, which we are calling Run on Less – Electric DEPOT (RoL-E DEPOT), will feature eight fleet depots with 15+ Class 3 to 8 battery electric vehicles (BEVs) operating in the U.S., Canada or Mexico.
The three week tests will be in September 2023. Detailed results and findings will be published in a focused report in mid-2024.
One of the key learnings from Run on Less – Electric was that the transition to electric vehicles is about much more than just the trucks themselves. It is about charging, infrastructure, grid capacity, resilience, etc. That’s what led us to the idea of RoL-E DEPOT, which will give us the opportunity to learn and share best practices for scaling electric trucks at depots.
In order to ensure the long-term success of electric trucks, we need to start learning from fleets who are beginning to scale their use of electric vehicles.
Our goal is to explain fleet scaling considerations such as charging infrastructure, engagement with utilities, total cost of ownership management, driver and technician training, charge management, etc. We also will highlight effective partnerships between fleets, OEMs, and utilities. And we will take a deep dive look into utilities, charging equipment, construction, etc.
Brian Wang is a Futurist Thought Leader and a popular Science blogger with 1 million readers per month. His blog Nextbigfuture.com is ranked #1 Science News Blog. It covers many disruptive technology and trends including Space, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, Medicine, Anti-aging Biotechnology, and Nanotechnology.
Known for identifying cutting edge technologies, he is currently a Co-Founder of a startup and fundraiser for high potential early-stage companies. He is the Head of Research for Allocations for deep technology investments and an Angel Investor at Space Angels.
A frequent speaker at corporations, he has been a TEDx speaker, a Singularity University speaker and guest at numerous interviews for radio and podcasts. He is open to public speaking and advising engagements.
The real world testing results are going to be hilarious or interesting. No one knows how they’ll perform in the cold or hot, on the inclines, when there at max payload, what about refrigerated loads? Break downs? Or how about the infrastructure which just isn’t in place?… Yeah it will be all nice and dandy at the start when there are a handful of trucks, but when you’ve got 4 trucks waiting to charge from a single charger 300 miles from the next things will get dicey… I hope electric or hydrogen prevails, but at our current moment in time we’d need 3 Tesla trucks to every one normal truck to move the same amount of payload at the same rate of speed across the same amount of distance.
The cost per miles too is completely off once you factor in the extra time you pay the driver to sit at a station and charge. And that’s given you have access to the charger straight away and it’s full capacity to charge.
Interesting how other view this, this ain’t a blue or a red thing. This is a human thing that at some point must happen, just they way they have went about it leave no room for error which there 100% will be.
This is the whole point of the three week September testing. Recording all of the data on fleet truck operations for electric Semi trucks. Tests in September, some live results and full reports a few months after. How much payload and how to make the trips.
Could someone tell, how heavy is the semi alone without the trailer?
It is in the chart at the bottom of the article. The 500+ mile range version likely weighs about 26000 lbs and the 300 mile range weighs about 20500 lbs. This is based upon calculations of the max towing of 44000 lbs taken from the 82000 lbs max weight less the empty weight 10,000 lbs of a 53 foot trailer.
About 27,000 lbs.
My husband is a long hauler in British Columbia Canada, they should be doing these tests in the mountains in BC in the cold climate with flat deck super b’s hauling 137,000 lbs and see how long your charge will last. He’s not too impressed with the stats on the Pepsi test.
Yes, extreme cold weather greatly reduces range. Fortunately, the largest markets are in warm weather areas where the people and trucks are. Ice road truckers are the hardy and the few and meaningless rounding errors for semi truck sales.
They will buy Russian trucks.
They know about ice
The tests should be full capacity truck trailer and payload. Show the actual price of truck to general public. How many liftime charge cycles. Cost $ of full charge. Cost of battery change. Where the waste of hazardous batteries goes and environmental impact. Impact to grid when charging. Not impressed with sales pitch. Must show all pros and cons. lifetime cost per mile with maintenance would give someone an idea what they are getting into.
You show the lifetime cost to the planet for a diesel truck with its tens of thousands of tons of carbon dioxide produced…..just for reference 1 US gallon of diesel fuel produces over 22 pounds of carbon dioxide
Who cares about carbon dioxide?
You are the carbon they want to reduce.
The bs flaky diesel commentators are already being left in the dust.
The sooner we get of the fossil fuels road to hell the better for everyone.
Hail Tesla the #1 selling car in the world… And sooner the better the #1 selling truck.
Per the article, the data is from 1 driver (4.8% of the fleet) and only 3 trucks (14% of the fleet) are “long haul” which to everyone else in the industry is a short haul distance. Potato chips are also not heavy.
If the Tesla semi is so great, why did California taxpayers have to buy Pepsi’s trucks and why does Elon want taxpayers to pay $100 million to install 6 highway charging stations?
All of the electric trucks from Freightliner, Volvo etc… are all supported with subsidies. The truck drivers said that they are moving max weight loads as well. Those would be pepsi drinks up to the 82000 lb total truck, trailer, payload capacity.
820,000lbs as you stated would be more than any Semi has every pulled behind itself. 😂😂😂 Might want to fact check that figure.
82,000 lbs shifted the decimal. That is for the semi, trailer and payload.
Question as the numbers being thrown around are a bit confusing and sometimes contradictory. The article says they were pulling full loads, not max weight. In shipping/logistics, these are often two very different numbers. I am assuming by full load you also mean filling all reasonable cu ft of the interior?
If so, are the numbers you have in the article for the max weight or for a full load?
So about 20 cents per mile versus about 30 cents for diesel. Sounds good if you can get the power.
450×1.7=765 kWhr per day per truck. For comparison a large apartment unit consumes about 1100 kWhr PER MONTH. So each EV truck needs the power of 15 modest sized residences. Show me a local power grid capable of supplying a fleet of 100, much less thousands.
This is the calculation that matters. It also applies to the Toyota wonder battery for the auto fleet. 725kwh in 15minutes is a bit more than my 200A service can deliver.
200A x 240V = 48,000VA (watts) or 48kw
725kwh/48kw = 15hrs
Assuming you don’t need electricity for anything else for 15 hours
No one is charging electric trucks on L2 (240V) chargers.
11 times the watts per mile compared to Tesla Model 3
Pepsi will probably get a license to produce its own electricity. Like foundries usually do.
The electrical grid is strained now. I’ve read that if 20%of our vehicles were electrical, it would require a 45% increase in electrical production! Nuclear is the only place it can come from.
Clearly you haven’t been reading reports from Pacific Northwest National Laboratories. For over a decade, their reports have indicated 80%+ of the light duty vehicles could switch to electric without any new generation. While class 8 trucks use much more energy, there are many less of them. Solar PV+ storage is cheaper to build than nuclear, and comes on line much sooner. Tesla’s grid level battery back up facility in Australia had a 2 year ROI. Maybe there will be a fusion breakthrough, but nuclear fission is too expensive to build, now.
South Australian battery’s main income stream was from stabilising the grid frequency, not filling the big gaps when solar and wind weren’t performing. Frequency control is a free bonus when most of your power comes from massive, fast-spinning generators – fossil, hydro, or nuclear – just from their inertia. It’s only when thousands of separate wind turbines and solar panels dominate the grid, with no fixed beat and wildly fluctuating, unplanned output, that you need a battery to keep your Hertz right. One battery can do that, but it would take dozens to keep even a tiny population like SA’s powered up through a calm spell.
You forgot to mention that south Australia raised their power prices by 26% the highest rise from any state in Australia.
South Australia also apparently run 70% renewable so the power prices are going up
That is 100% incorrect, that statement was made for off-peak power, currently they will need a extra 30% of reliable power to power the 15% of cars
If we did 100m new passenger cars, at an average of 30mi/day, that is 1.1b miles. Assuming a very modest 3mi/kwh for an average EV, that is 0.33kwh/mi. That is 365b kwh, or 365TWh. Last year the US generated about 4,240TWh. It’s about 10% of our total energy use for passenger cars to go electric for day to day use. Ideally, 240v infrastructure everywhere would let them soak up solar overproduction during the day, and nuke/wind overproduction at night.
There are ~3M semi trucks in the U.S., sold a year ~475k, with medium duty ~220k and ~250k being class 8 (~2022).
Semi trucks 2020 delivered on 179.8 billion miles, assuming an avg 1.9kwh/mi ~340TWh (each ~125k miles a year).
(Following this, single-unit trucks had a 115 billion miles on average ~7.6mpg.)
Diesel/gasoline (assuming a nowadays ~50%/50%) semi average ~6.2mpg (1gallon ~37/33kwh), that’s ~1015TWh of primary energy of diesel oil/gasoline.
“The US transportation industry recorded 1.16 trillion dollars in revenue in 2022.”
and cost-per-mile increased, numbers from ~2020-2021 list ~$1.6 to ~$1.84 for large carriers
‘https://www.truckinfo.net/research/trucking-statistics#market’
~4 million heavy load trucks are produced each year. (on US average mileage and diesel/gasoline share, adds demand for ~2800TWh on primary energy, being ~1/3 on electric drive train, unknown number of vehicles decommissioned each year, globally, but mean duty for commercial medium/heavy semi trucks for US is ~6-7yrs, ~750k miles)
‘https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2022/12/global-large-and-semi-truck-market-is-4-million-per-year.html’
correction: ‘(each ~125k miles a year)’ is more likely upper range number for average for long-distance hauling trucks, calculated average from given numbers for semi’s is ~half (~60k miles), but these including medium duty class trucks also
border-to-border or coast-to-coast is at least about a (3)4-5 days(?)
correction: ‘mean duty for commercial medium/heavy semi trucks for US is ~6-7yrs’
with another source there are already ~4M semi trucks *registered* within US and mean age for semi trucks is more towards a over 11yrs for class 8, over 15yrs class 6 and for medium duty ~15-16yrs, with average for semi trucks ~15yrs (and ‘plenty’ with ~4M miles of service, what’s ~750-900mi/day for the truck)
[ so probably i did not recognize (and check for) a significant export of US semi trucks(?) Sold semi trucks within the US are told ~95-275k, produced medium duty/18wheeler ~475k, so with a 4M in service and ~266k sold yearly, average duty of service of ~15-16yrs match again, for verifying own comprehension; besides that: also, car’s average age is getting older in the US ]
Some told CO2 impact of fossil fuels, yes, but if a truck owner-operator cannot afford changing with full investment (and low to no used vehicle market for electric semi, ‘obviously’), prohibitive laws are questioning their life style or life concepts. No wondering about their feelings. It’s not about defending emissions, but indicating to a lack of chances (what’s contrary to the advertised US way of life)?
You’ve read wrong. But nuclear absolutely needs to be part of the mix.
You make 450 miles sound like it was hard to do, I can run over a thousand miles in my diesel, takes less then 15 minutes to totally fill it up, how long does it take to get 100% charge ? You don’t state that! Why does everyone cater to California on their B.S. regulations? If I made these big trucks I would tell the federal government where to go imagine if all manufacturers said screw you to ridiculous regulations I bet this stupidity would stop, California grid is already crap and worse in summer but let’s plug more into it makes since to me? I really think that state looks for things to make it hard to exist in that state of California, by the way what other so called states are following suit on the madness u don’t say which ones!? That way I can monitor how desperate those states will become before they get the real trucks to come back in ?
We should have stuck with the horse and buggy. Also, owners of EVs realize they never have to charge to 100% to enjoy the benefits of the sun.
Frank the majority of people work during the day 🙄 and they drive to work.
So please explain how they charge from solar, they do not goout during the weekend.
The solar lie has been busted
First off, never charge any ev battery to 100%. Unless you have no choice. That will reduce the capacity of the battery. Second, the batteries are recyclable, can u do that with desil? Oh wait,, no. It evaperates causing..whats that called..oh yeah. Emissions. Emissions are contributing to..whats that called when our planet is flooding and catching fire and weather is way off…oh thats right! Climate change. So many people only care about the now and their lives. Why care about our grandkids and their kids, we wont see it..wrong! We are full speed ahead to distroying any chance humans have to making it past 2525.
Yes i agree our grid needs serious work. But maybe, just maybe, if people would focus on going solar and getting off the grid at home, it could ease up the grid over all. But thats too much logic for some. Thats what makes california the 4th largest grossing economy in the world. Logic and innovation. Such a shame those in red states, only a part of our country by default, cant seem to grasp anything other than “gun rights, fear tactics, forcing their beliefs and tax relief for the rich (yet 99% of them dont benefit from such tax breaks)” California isnt the problem. Its just because they are moving forward and others dont like change.
Most shipping come from China which lands in the ports of California. So if you want any goods, you’ll have to travel in California. California also makes up 10% of the US population, so they have major influence on the rest of the states. As well as the most people in Congress come from California than any other state.
Do you need to sleep? Pee? Eat?
Not when driving, of course.
Efficiency depends on loading and more importantly travel speed. It’s hard to get much out of the analysis without knowing exactly what they are doing.
California has a statewide truck speed limit of 55. Other states are higher.
[ kwh/mi and power (2 motors for acceleration and 1 for highway drive unit, 340-1020hp, correlates with Tesla also, if considering some average power ~1-1.5 times the highway drive unit, being a comparable ~340-500hp(?) ) interrelates also, thus higher overall power tends towards higher consumption on kwh/mi, but Tesla, BYD 8TT and Nicola Tre and a Volvo VNRe (4-2) being somewhat on outer limits of data range, ~222hp/(1kwh/1mi) {150-300(-600@1020hp)} (theoretically)
What are drivers opinions on changed driving demands and overall working conditions with electrical powered trucks, maintenance experiences from truck mechanics or customers view being delivered? ]
[ roughly ~$1.51/mi for a Diesel truck and ~$1.26/mi for Tesla Semi, ~15% advantage on running costs and comparing altitude profiles, a hilly delivery surroundings might add (these days technologies for all trucks, at least) ~10% for each mile on kwh/mi on recuperation losses ]
Tesla will do exceptionally well compared to Diesel when there is stop and go traffic.
To save that 15% operating costs you need to invest an extra $100,000 in the cost of the truck. The break even point is 400,000 miles. If you add in the charging infrastructure, that figure goes even higher and if the cost of electricity goes up, well, so much for that 15% cost advantage.
[ Yes, sorry it’s just a number that appeared with researching. Investment decisions for 11hr hauling jobs are more than difficult, if return on investment is a minimum 4yrs risk (long-distance), every age drivers (without or including driving assistance), electrical energy stabilizing with renewables and fossil fuels trending to add with ‘slowly’ getting rare/scarce and increasing CO2 rating (seen globally) adding to cost.
If it was up to me recommending conversion options, it would be going hybrid (thus reducing pressure on grid conversion and locally upgrading (renewable power supply), gaining experience) with also (supportive&innovative, modular) conversion kits (with upgrading options yr for year) and electrical drive train support from trailers.
e.g. ‘https://thedriven.io/2023/05/05/new-electric-powered-trailer-could-reduce-diesel-truck-fuel-use-by-41/’
Infrastructure conversion is more expensive than newly starting, because of partly&temporarily multiplying supply with intergradient efficiencies. Optimization and organizing a paying class for inefficiencies is another additional challenge for modern (global) societies(?)
While on fossil fuels (not generally all liquid fuels) stabilizing cost is getting more difficult, at least there’s a 15% hope for compensating cost with electric efficiencies.
but, grow options to choose from not prohibitions(?) ]
Please do not quote the drivern as Giles and his crew have been caught fudging the figures pro electric.
California has spent over 1 trillion on renewables and failed to have a reliable power grid,they also have one of the highest power costs in the world
[ Where you think margin comes from within fossil fuel extraction, while difference is, fossil fuels are like extracting batteries from sun’s million yrs irradiation and renewables are ‘instant’ or more direct energy conversion from insolation. Buffering was done with biochemically forming ‘fuels’, on low efficiency (compared to photovoltaics), but at ‘low’ financial ‘cost’ for capitalistic systems for exploration, extraction and refining.
People earning money from money change businesses if margin is attractive and if there are monopolies.
1 trillion seems a big amount compared to installed infrastructure, but it’s invested sustainable (and even with lacking alternatives, with avoiding discussions about nuclear for residual independent electricity supply or ‘global’ geothermal infrastructure), but not knowing what sum it is for building same infrastructure based on fossil&nuclear on 2023 intrinsic-values with inflation-adjusted numbers and including planetary heating costs(?)
(B-17 Flying Fortress ~$250k_1943 (~4$M_202x) or B-2 ~$880M (~$2.2B incl. development) or B-2x & SR71 & F35 ‘& SR72’)
apart from (social impact with) financial justice, there is a challenge we are trending towards
‘https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_energy_gain’
If there’s even real increasing reserves/resources on fossil fuels, its also challenged with increasing energy demand and (sum of) conversion losses on this planet.
not easy, but necessary within a reasonable time scale and change beyond ‘renewables’ will be next
(Who will be you’re advisories/consultancies?) ]
Energy costs usually raise and fall together. There is a lot of arbitraging.
Damn how expensive is your electric rate? 1.7kw per mile is less than $.20 on residential rates national avarage. Go to commercial rates like it would be and you are 1/2 that!!!
e.g. large carriers: per mile, maintenance ~$16ct, tires ~$4ct
‘https://www.truckinfo.net/research/trucking-statistics#market’
US, electricity (variances depending on State, year 2023(2022) ), e.g.
residental avg ~16.14(14.97)¢/kwh (10-32¢, Hawaii 42¢/kwh)
commercial avg ~12.31(12.15)¢ (7.7-21¢)
industrial avg ~7.75(8.37)¢
transportation avg ~12.34(10.8)¢ (5.85-16.88¢)
Speed limit curiosity is Oklahoma, on freeways, there’s a minimum speed from 50-60mph, but for passenger cars a top speed ranging from 55-65mph, means car drivers are allowed a speed variance of ~5mph at most(?)
For trucks it’s a State with one of the highest speed limits with a range from 70-80mph allowed on freeways.
Diesel truck double that range and fuel time 15 minutes so 3 trucks line up for that charger so wait time is 1hour 40 minutes and if a slower charger the wait time is 7-14 hours.
Are you going to pay the extra cost for travel time
The truck will be able to self drive.
The truck can go recharging without the driver in it.
The trucker MUST stop to rest for some time, otherwise there are problems.
You can factor it in the travel and charging time.