A NASA NIAC phase 1 grant has been given to Geoffrey Landis to develop innovative concepts for a sample return from the surface of Venus. The project description is vague.
At 450°C and 92 atmosphere pressure, the surface of Venus is the most hostile environment to explore in the solar system. This project will pioneer a new approach to return a sample from the surface of Venus. The approach will merge an innovative carbon monoxide rocket technology to make propellant from the Venus atmosphere with innovations in high-temperature surface systems and solar aircraft.
The pressure at the bottom of the Earth’s ocean is about 1070 atmospheres.
Landis had a NASA NIAC grant to investigate the use of laser- and particle-beam pushed sails for propulsion for interstellar flight. In 2002 Landis addressed the annual convention of the American Association for the Advancement of Science on the possibilities and challenges of interstellar travel in what was described as the first serious discussion of how mankind will one day set sail to the nearest star. He went on to describe a star ship with a diamond sail, a few nanometres thick, powered by solar energy, which could achieve “10 per cent of the speed of light”.
He was selected again as a NASA Innovative Advanced Concepts fellow in 2012, with feasibility concept of a landsailing rover for Venus exploration,called Venus Landsailing Rover, and in 2015 was the science lead on a NIAC study to design a mission to Neptune’s moon Triton
Brian Wang is a Futurist Thought Leader and a popular Science blogger with 1 million readers per month. His blog Nextbigfuture.com is ranked #1 Science News Blog. It covers many disruptive technology and trends including Space, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, Medicine, Anti-aging Biotechnology, and Nanotechnology.
Known for identifying cutting edge technologies, he is currently a Co-Founder of a startup and fundraiser for high potential early-stage companies. He is the Head of Research for Allocations for deep technology investments and an Angel Investor at Space Angels.
A frequent speaker at corporations, he has been a TEDx speaker, a Singularity University speaker and guest at numerous interviews for radio and podcasts. He is open to public speaking and advising engagements.
Well, there we are! Star studded pop-Scientist will reveal the unobtainium reactors needed to fly around Venus and dig up crunchy bits … sometime soon.
Seriously.
Brett Bellmore cites that ‘the poles’ would be better. How much better? Because Venus’s surface is nearly isothermal, I’d bet ±50° C between poles and equatorial meridian. 400° vs 450° … still dâhmned hot.
Last I heard, there aren’t durable semiconductors willing to work year-upon-year at 450° or so. Silicon carbide — the workhorse of high temperature electronics — goes wobbly around 175° C. Theoretically can zoom up to 200° C indefinitely, so long as it is not tasked with commutating much power.
Nitrogen doped diamond has long been studied. Could go up to 400° C or so. Problem is, it doesn’t like conducting. It is, how do you say, more of an insulator than a semiconductor. After that? Boron nitride (diamondoid) is a good candidate. More conductive. But lower temperature stability limits. Durn…
Cuz one needs the semiconductors to do such things as ‘turn on, and off’ the propeller motors. Or just to have the motors work at all (magnetic field commutation).
Oh, darn … what about the Curie point of the motors’ permanent field magnets? Grrrr… Obviously to conserve mass — it being a space mission, right? — one wouldn’t want to loft WW2 era wound-field magnetics in the motor cage. Not even sure THEY would work at 450C
Speaking of that, what about the batteries? If the Venusian planes are to land, pick up rocks then return again, I kind of think that the motors for the props will need a significantly hefty amount of battery juice! No? why not? Physics doesn’t really have a special Venus-optional clause for addressing the work of rising back through the clouds to get ‘out’ and ‘back’.
Let’s see. Magiconium is likely going to be needed to ‘solve’ the crisis in ‘carrying enough stuff to Venus to get back later’ problem. Now its apparently ‘deoxygenate the ubiquitous CO₂ to (CO + O₂) and use them as fuel’. In situ. With lots of solar cells, a nifty donut balloon ‘aerostat’. Covered with the solar cells. Filled, I would guess, with hydrogen, since it is not flammable in a CO₂ atmosphere. Lotsa lift. Stay up there virtually forever. Bumbling about with big plans and Mother Venus making hash out of ’em.
Magiconium and Unobtainium.
Only need Vaporite and Chef Boy-R-Dee’s Improbable Sauce.
Wings, spars, surfaces, polymers. HEAT.
Batteries, motors, magents, computers. HEAT.
Huge balloons, wicked electrochemistry … HEAt, MASS.
⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅
“I’d bet ±50° C between poles and equatorial meridian. 400° vs 450° … still dâhmned hot. ”
You might lose that bet. The ESA’s “Venus Express” probe found seriously low temperatures in the neighborhood of the one pole, apparently due to a strong polar vortex isolating the polar atmosphere from the rest of Venus. Hard to say, might be as much as 100C colder.
The actual sampling probe wouldn’t have to be terribly complicated. You could have a dumb probe that parachutes down, triggers a spring loaded scoop on impact, and then inflates a fabric balloon by evaporating frozen lifting gas. Which would double as coolant for any electronics you sent along for the ride.
Then it would float back up to more comfortable altitude, trailing a radar reflector, and the nuclear powered aerostat would home on it, collect the sample, then maybe refreeze the lifting gas and send it down again.
No need for anything delicate to enter the oven.
Could one have an on-board refrigeration system and put the computers with their semiconductor components in a refrigerated compartment?
How about spearfishing from an altitude of + – 45 km?
– winch, computers, motors in the floating boat
– 400 kelvin 126 C
– 1-3 bar
Long wire tough…
There is, apparently, a zone of atmosphere around the poles, trapped by circulation patterns, that’s quite a bit cooler. That would probably be the place to collect samples, as you could loiter there.