IVO, NASA, DARPA and Another Group Are All Working to Test Quantum Drive’s in Space

Here is information of the Quantized inertia drive and experiments. There is information from several of the papers, video discussions and direct communication that I, Brian Wang, had with Mike McCulloch.

Mike McCulloch is working with two other teams planning to launch cubesats with propellentless thrusters, one of them with connections to NASA.

DARPA is no longer working directly with McCulloch but DARPA has launched a program called Otter, to demonstrate ability to maneuver without regret. DARPA is putting $17.4 million in 2024 into Otter.

The Otter program will develop and demonstrate space technologies that enable operations in new orbital domains that are currently inaccessible. Capabilities demonstrated will provide increased mission duration and ability to maneuver without regret. Key efforts include the development of new propulsion systems, improved ground test capabilities, and analysis tools to support system development. The anticipated transition partner is the U.S. Space Force. Otter will progress through development of analysis and test tools, design of candidate propulsion systems, build of a demonstrator satellite, and complete with a space demonstration.
FY 2024 Otter Plans:
– Conduct selection of propulsion system vendors, test facilities, and analysis tools developers.
– Develop analysis tools to support system design.
– Upgrade test facilities to support component testing.
– Develop and mature propulsion systems through a Preliminary Design Review (PDR).

In 2023, they are getting good results from a capacitor with a dielectric between plates with 8 micron separation. McCulloch uses Aluminium plates and kapton dielectric but IVO uses a solid dielectric. There are at least three groups working on the propulsion experiments and six labs worked on ground experiments. In Mike McCulluch lab at Plymouth, they saw 0.25 milliNewtons. IVO saw 52milliNewtons. The works is at about 1 watt of power because attempts to increase power causes problems at this time. There is still times when the system does not work.

The IVO drive system weighs about 200 grams. A Hall Effect thruster weighs about 100 kilograms. The IVO drive uses about one watt of power. The Hall effect thruster uses about 1-7 kilowatts of power.

IVO has the best results and have been able to make their system space worthy and had the funding to launch it. Mike McCulloch had the DARPA funding of $1.3 million. IVO seems to be privately funded. I do not know the IVO groups funding sources.

The IVO Quantized Inertia drive experiment is a capacitor cavity experiment using a solid dielectric. They can have made other improvements to achieve substantially more power than the other groups. The system could theoretically scale by finding ways to scale power, possibly making an array of devices and multiplying the effect. However, there are many unknowns and highly reliable operation has been elusive.

NORAD tracks all satellites and the IVO Barry-1 satellite with the Quantum drive experiment is being tracked. It is NORAD id code 58338.

It is traveling at 4.72 miles per second. If over the next few months it increases in speed instead of falling out of orbit then this would be evidence that the Quantum Drive works. They want to raise the orbit by 100 kilometers (60 miles). This should start sometime in the next 1-8 weeks and the drive will be on for a month or more.

The capacitor cavity approaches are getting the best results. It is a subtle effect. One has to start Fowler-Nordheim tunneling between the plates (leakage current). Tricky to do. If you ramp up the power too high it sparks and the effect is lost. There are other ways to enhance but those approaches need to be tested. There is a lot of trial and error and somewhat educated guesses.

In 2021, engineer Frank Becker read Mike McCulloch papers, remembered a capacitor-based Biefeld-Brown-type experiment he had done, and with a few discussion with Mike, Frank Becker and Ankur Bhatt tried it and produced milliNewtons of thrust. DARPA, who was funding Mike from 2018-2022 emailed Mike saying something like “What the heck is this!?”.

The Becker and Bhatt capacitors tested in the experiments have a performance above 0.4 [N/kW]; a benchmark often used by NASA to define a thrust ratio sufficient for interplanetary travel. This simple technology, in fact, has the advantage of being completely electric, thus suitable for fuel-less electric propulsion in vacuum. Moreover the scalability of this architecture, coupled with adequate energy source generation, might be appropriate for interstellar travel and precise maneuvering in space.

For some tests, typically associated with higher thrust force values, the overall capacitor was preheated for testing up to approximately 50 ◦C before placing the device onto the measurement apparatus. This also denotes that testing attempts at low ambient temperatures without pre-heating may lead to a thrust force too low to be detected.

One problem was that Becker and Bhatt had used a high voltage with a digital balance so there was a potential for glitches. Richard Mansell of IVO Ltd tried it with an analogue method and agreed with them. This new Mansell group has also blazed the path in innovation as well.

The method is to setup a potential difference of 5kV between the plates of a capacitor, and separate them by about 8-10 micron with a dielectric. You then allow electrons to quantum tunnel across the gap at a very low current (1 microAmp) but at a massive acceleration. The theory of quantized inertia says that they will see a field of nice hot Unruh radiation everywhere, except between the capacitor plates, as for the old Casimir effect. There will be then a quantum void between the plates that will pull the electrons out of the cathode faster than expected and this will add momentum to the system which will thrust towards the anode. A thrust from ‘nothing’. QI predicts the results of Becker and Bhatt and Mansell exactly, even the changes as you vary the plate separation.

The thrust depends most strongly on plate separation, but also linearly on current and power. The predicted thrust does not depend on the voltage, because although a higher voltage increases the amount of power between the plates it reduces the time the electrons spend there by the same proportion. Indeed Becker and Bhatt (2018) found a linear dependence with both current and power, which suggests that indeed voltage was not important. Equantions predicts a dependence on capacitor area.

It should be noted that this is only an approximate model, that assumes, for example, that metal plates completely block Unruh radiation. A factor which is simply unknown. The model cannot cope with more complex arrangements. For example, when the cathode was thickened, the result was that the thrust reduced and when a neutral conductor was positioned between the cathode and the Rindler horizon the force reversed (Becker and Bhatt, 2018). The reason for this is not clear.

In the case of the capacitor itself, it was assumed that the plates completely enforce a node on the Unruh waves at the position of the plate. In the case of arbitrary arrangement of metal plates this is more dicult to model since more than one node will be enforced and the thickness of the plates and the damping factor will have to be considered.

Finally, a metal plate placed to the right of the calculated position of the Rindler horizon caused a reversal, but when the plate was placed to the left of the Rindler horizon it had no effect. This makes sense in quantized inertia since events beyond the horizon cannot be ‘known’ by the accelerated electrons by denition. Therefore this test by Becker and Bhatt (2018) may be the first direct observation of a Rindler horizon.

18 thoughts on “IVO, NASA, DARPA and Another Group Are All Working to Test Quantum Drive’s in Space”

  1. Despite the strong physics objections, this has a nice Eppur Si Muove validation approach.

    If it moves, it moves. And the amount of expected orbital change is not negligible at all.

    The geometry and voltage/power dependencies aren’t deal breakers either. If you have a single millinewtons per watt compact thruster, you can have an array of them producing newtons per kilowatt, which is good for fast interplanetary missions and interstellar probe worthy.

    Even the single units would be worth billions on maneuvering and deorbit thrusters for satellites. Basically all of them would adopt the tech, being severely limited by their chemical or ionic thrusters’ fuel.

  2. >There will be then a quantum void between the plates that will pull the electrons out of the cathode faster than expected and this will add momentum to the system which will thrust towards the anode. A thrust from ‘nothing’.

    This explains why they (IVO group) measured no thrust in the “null” test, and that was in a vacuum chamber so that was probably the result that led them to conclude it must be tested in space finally, I can’t think of any factor that they might have overlooked in that case. This will go down as one of the most interesting scientific experiments in history for sure.

  3. Very cool! The only problem is that if this Q-Drive works as promised, we will have the first operational perpetual motion machine, and even worst, the first operational over-unity device (efficiency > 1), both of them forbidden by Thermodynamics. In other words, where the energy is coming from?

    • Well said Hector. Thrust is easily tested and yet despite everything written about these drives, not a single reputable and independent lab has publicly confirmed and quantified thrust from these type drives.

        • Brian, No one would be happier about the deployment of a Star drive than me. I love space – and all space related tech and have since I read Danny Dunn and the Anti-Gravity paint in 1970. I know that DARPA funded McCulloch for 5 years approx 1.3 million. I can’t find any article that specifically says the Otter program will focus on propellant-less drives. Is there a link to Darpa Otter projects or a list of projects which are for IVO/propellant-less tech? When I looked up: Maneuver without regret – it was about systems that can be efficiently refueled in space. No mention made of engines that don’t need fuel.

    • My, admittedly limited, understanding of the articles Brian has posted is that there IS an power requirement to operate the drive, so not a perpetual motion machine.

      Watching with great interest and zero expectations.

      • Yes – there is a power requirement. However, this drive does not eject propellant to produce thrust. Broadly accepted physics says that you can produce thrust without ejecting propellant, using a “photon” drive. For instance a flashlight produces a bit of thrust. The reason NASA/SpaceX/etc. have never created a photon drive is that it takes an enormous amount of energy to produce a small amount of thrust. IVO claims their drive can produce 52 millinewtons with one watt. Standard physics says that a 52 millinewton photon drive would require – 15 megawatts.

  4. I hate to sound suspicious but is there a way to tell if the thrust, if any, is coming from the quantized inertia drive and not a Hall thruster hidden inside?

    • Some researchers have already tested them (these devices) in high vacuum to rule out ionic wind and other explanations to explain the thrust. That’s why they’re trying to test them in space to see if the effect is still there. Let’s just hope this is a Chicago Pile-1 moment and once the effet is proven to be real,more development comes along to quickly develop it.

      • I wasn’t really talking about factors that cause an unintended false positive. I was actually talking about outright fraud. I wished I did what Brian Wang did and checked the size and power requirements of Hall thrusters that could be substituted for their space drive, and I also should have known a launch provider would want to know what they’re launching as the wrong payload could jeopardize the entire launch. There is enough hands in this experiment (Space-X, NASA, DARPA) that intentional fraud would be extremely difficult to pull off.

    • The Hall Effect thruster is too big and heavy for the cubesat. If they had a smaller and lighter hall thruster that was 10-40 times smaller and used fewer solar panels they could just sell that.

      I looked at the smallest Hall thrusters. If the Barry-1 thrust is 2 millinewtons or less and lasts for a month or so then it could be a small Hall thruster pretending to be QI drive. It would use 20-50 watts, would need more solar and would need on board fuel. If the drive kept going for years, which it should without breaking down then it would be the QI drive.

      SpaceX as the rideshare launcher would have inspected the payload. They will not launch black boxes. Engineering diagrams and system tests would be performed. DARPA would be validating what is happening on the orbital mission or they would not greenlight the funding. Three or more independent projects.

  5. To an outsider, these systems sound a bit like LENR/cold fusion experiments.

    Fiddly experimental setups. Inconsistent performance. Lots of theories. Minimal replicability. Very small effects that nobody has figured out how to scale up.

    I hope both are real. If they’re not, I hope we don’t lose the time of too many smart people pursuing them.

      • What we have gotten is the current crisis in cosmology and understanding of gravity, which will ultimately lead to a new understanding of our universe. Worth it in my opinion. With these thrusters, as long as it’s not my money then fine.

    • IVO CEO (Richard Mansell) claims that E Labs (a reputable testing company) validated his rocket engine’s thrust.
      E Labs (link below) only says that they did “durability testing” which I believe involves subjecting the engine to vacuum and temperature ranges. (1) This whole space feels like the cold fusion nonsense. (2) If you read Mansell’s twitter feed – he sounds remarkably similar to Elizabeth Holmes. He mostly responds to cheerleading comments, but not to specific questions. Fact: The “IVO Quantum Drive” was placed in orbit on November 11, 2024 and yet here we are 10+ weeks later and he is tweeting about/promoting a children’s book he wrote a decade ago.

      He is also evasive about investors. Note: They MUST be investor funded since they have no products/revenue streams. And for a tech company their website is a joke – it has nothing of substance on it. IVO was founded back in 17 or so to provide “remote” charging tech.

      https://www.facebook.com/ELabsInc/

  6. Now you’ve realised IVO’s device is capacitive not some weird ring laser arrangement, is it worth editing the title of your previous article claiming that’s how it “works”?

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